Suggestions wanted- preamp for live rock tones

steve_rolfeca · #1 02-04-2010, 05:29 AM

I'm playing a gig that involves a lot of up-tempo pop material, and I'm having trouble cutting through. The lineup changes, but it's usually a crowded stage, with a busy drummer, keys, acoustic guitar, one or two electric guitars and BGV's.

I've mostly been playing acoustic music in recent years, and my gear evolved in that direction- flat-response amplification, no effects, etc. Sounds great in that environment, but I need to sculpt a more aggressive tone for this gig.

Experiments with a POD XT Live showed that while I can easily make myself heard with a crunchy Geddy Lee SVT tone, it takes up too much space in an already crowded mix.

A simple bump in the mids and mild tweaking in the top end seems to do the trick, so now I'm looking for a character preamp.

I want something portable, that won't interfere with my normal tone when set flat. I have a Radial JDI, so I don't really need another DI. My tonal needs change depending on the lineup, so I need flexibility. Also, I'd rather have the immediacy of twisting knobs, rather than diving into menu hell with a floor processor.

At the moment, I'm considering the following options:
- EMG VMC and a passive tone control (my bass has 18V EMG pickups, but no tone shaping)
- Tech 21 Para Driver
- Tech 21 VT Bass
- Aguilar Tone Hammer

I can't test drive any of these options locally, which leaves me trying to guess the best option based on what I can see/hear on the web.

I like the idea of a semi-parametric midrange control. Unfortunately, clips of the Para Driver and VT emphasize the distortion angle, which isn't where I'm headed, and the ones I've heard of the Tone Hammer don't really showcase its ability to do more aggressive tone shaping.

I don't want to drill any more holes in my bass, so if I did the VMC, I would probably put it in a project box. I'm somewhat biased against the Para Driver, because "flat" settings on the BDDI coloured my sound too much. Yes, I guess that makes me one of those "wire with gain" tone geeks...

If you've had experience with the EMG active mid control in this application, and especially if you use the VT as a clean preamp, I'd love to hear from you.

Other suggestions (Demeter? Ampeg SVT-IIP?) are also welcome.

bongomania · #2 02-04-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

A simple bump in the mids and mild tweaking in the top end seems to do the trick, so now I'm looking for a character preamp.

Quick logic check: if a simple EQ change does the trick (and it should), then why do you want a "character preamp"?

I'm not at all discouraging you from buying such a thing "just because you want it", but why not buy an EQ pedal? Specifically I think you should look at the Empress Para EQ--there are many posts about it here to read, and I think it is the perfect solution for you. You might also dig the Barber Linden.

If you really do want to get some flavor beyond just EQ shaping, then maybe tell us a little bit more about what flavor you want?

bassman1185 · #3 02-04-2010, 10:06 AM

All of the preamps that you mentioned (minus the EMG) have bypass switches, so they won't color your sound when you don't want them to. If the idea is to have more sounds available to you, you don't want to have to lean over and adjust your preamp back to flat every time you want a change. Just turn it off when you don't want it, and turn it on when you do.

I have the VT and I love it. It does seem geared most towards more aggressive overdriven sounds (that's what I use it for) it will do clean and fat sounds just fine. If you are looking for "Geddy Lee in a box," the VT works great. In my own experience, though, it doesn't seem to like active signals so much, so try it out before you buy it.

The Tone Hammer is, from what I understand, an awesome box, but it is overall more natural and un-colored than the rest of your options.

The MXR M-80 is another one you might like. The EQ is great on it, and there is a distortion section if you want to use it. Personally, I don't think the distortion sounds very good unless you roll the blend WAY back and keep the gain low, but the rest of the package makes it well worth the money.

Nerotic · #4 02-04-2010, 01:22 PM

EBS MicroBass II might also be an option for you?

Great preamp/DI with two channels (one clean, one OD-able) that can be used together, mute switch, blendable FX loop, can be used as a headphone amp, several filters which alters the way the EQ knobs interact with each other and it can be powered 4 different ways. (9v battery, powersupply and phantom power through either amp og mixer)

Basically this pedal has limitless options, but comes with a hefty price tag.

IMO - It's worth it!

steve_rolfeca · #5 02-08-2010, 05:04 AM

Thanks for the advice, guys. I drove to the nearest well-stocked store on Saturday, and tried 3 pedals:

The VT sounded decent, but the controls are crazy interactive. I'd nail the low end, and then spend 10 minutes chasing the mids and treble. Not what I want for stage use.

The Bass Driver had too much mid scoop for fingerstyle. Like the VT, it also masked the natural sound of the instrument more than I like.

Next, I picked up a broken Behringer ADI21 (Acoustic DI clone), for $10. Easily repaired, but I pulled it a few minutes into my gig- the tone shaping was nice, but not worth the loss of clarity and punch. To be fair, my bass has pretty hot output (heavy, mostly maple neck-thru and EMG's at 18V).

I didn't like the distorted tones on any of these pedals. Not their fault, I don't like bass overdrive.

All of this confirmed that I want more clarity than I can get from Tech 21 (at least without going rackmount), and that all I'm really after is some surgical EQ to tighten up the low end and manipulate the mids.

A Barber Linden (or maybe a Flipster?) would be nice for overall tone shaping, but I've decided that first I need a good parametric EQ.

I'd like something more roadworthy than the little Presonus. The Carl Martin is interesting, but the Empress ParaEQ looks better. The bandwidth switches should speed up fine-tuning on-stage, and I like the fact that I can switch in the pad or even run it at 18V if my bass overpowers the front end.

jibreel · #6 02-09-2010, 10:06 AM

The Empress ParaEQ kills !!!!

Fabulous eq. With boost.

There is just something about this pedal that makes my bass sound just like itself but just a bit better. And not in an effect way. I just love it.

dino777 · #7 06-01-2011, 10:55 PM

I'm looking for a preamp for recording, Empress ParaEQ and Barber Linden seems good, but are they able to function as a preamp? just like Aguilar Tonehammer? any experience? thanks!

blastjv · #8 06-02-2011, 08:19 AM

Quote:

I want more clarity than I can get from Tech 21 (at least without going rackmount), and that all I'm really after is some surgical EQ to tighten up the low end and manipulate the mids.

The Xotic BB might be worth a look. I use mine for very much what you seem to want. I describe it as simply providing "focus". I don't use it as an OD, but as a preamp. Great pedal.

-JV

kester · #9 06-02-2011, 09:37 AM

the M80 is a bass DI box, so you can use it for recording.

P-oddz · #10 06-02-2011, 09:43 AM

Very satisfied with my Tone Hammer. Flexible EQ, that doesn't color much if you don't want it too. The AGS can introduce a nice bit of tube-like warmth/compression to a full out distortion (if you choose to go that route). You will have more flexibility in tones than the VT, and aren't limited to the Ampeg arena as your are with the VT. More mids flexibility, and an XLR out with Pre and Post capability.

For some clippage, I did this a while ago. Just various settings on the Tone Hammer. First is bypassed, then some other random settings from there.

SoundClick artist: Thunderbeard - page with MP3 music downloads

EskimoBassist · #11 06-02-2011, 10:38 AM

All about the MXR M-80. Often overlooked but those only seeking Sansamp, although I'm ny opinion, considerably better than the standard model.

scHism · #12 06-02-2011, 12:36 PM

If you could try the MXR M-80, it could be the one you are looking for.

silky smoove · #13 06-02-2011, 01:22 PM

I've been using my Tronographic Rusty Box in situations where I need to tighten up my tone, and add a tiny bit of dirt to make it more fitting in a rock context.

I've never been a huge fan of always-on overdrive, but the Rusty Box does it in such a way that I find it really pleasing. I keep the gain down around 25% and it stays relatively clean until I dig in a bit and then it breaks up. Tightens up the bottom end, and adds a very pleasant bite to the top end/upper mids.

someparts · #14 06-02-2011, 10:52 PM

Out of left field a bit here, but try a DOD 250....the yellow reissues are inexpensive and have much more bass retention than the older ones. I've been using one at a lower gain setting for just what you describe. Yeah, it's not boutique or even for bass specifically....but I keep going back to it for that little extra cut it provides and the lack of knobs to screw things up.