Synth / Dub filter: will Wilson Wah or MS-20 clone do?

Dan_T · #1 08-31-2009, 07:23 PM

I'm thinking of investing in a filter for doing the Synth / Dub tone type of thing. Due to bypass and logistics, the Moog 101 seems unrealistic at this point. I was wondering how people's experiences with the Wilson Wah and Robot Factory MS-20 filters were. If I kept the Wilson in a completely heel back position, would that work as an effective filter? I have a 105q that sounds kind of good like this, but with the spring action this is a pain to maintain. I've read that the MS-20 is more focused than the Moog, and not quite as bassy. The tones I'm looking at copping would be similar to these songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpMHnsdsCiY (Main Deep, Dubby Part starting at 0:37)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAVDS4mCHWA (bass part from 1:50 on, in conjunction with the normal octave / gated fuzz, and I'm guessing envelope filter?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf3fp...eature=related (all of the bass sounds, but mostly the ones at 2:00 and 2:40)

I realize that the Moog would probably be the best for this sort of stuff, but I intend to switch between many different tones so the Bypass would kill me, and it would eat massive amounts of board space.

Any experience with a Wilson Wah or MS-20 filter would be appreciated, and any other suggestions are welcome.

**TheMutt** · #2 08-31-2009, 10:27 PM

I'm sure JohnDavisNYC will pop on here any minute and set you straight.

As far as the Wilson Wah, it works okay as an LPF, but works much better as a wah pedal. It's not going to get bassy enough unless you have the trimpots externalized (Kevin offers an option on most of his wahs for this).

Jared Lash · #3 08-31-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_T

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpMHnsdsCiY (Main Deep, Dubby Part starting at 0:37)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAVDS4mCHWA (bass part from 1:50 on, in conjunction with the normal octave / gated fuzz, and I'm guessing envelope filter?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf3fp...eature=related (all of the bass sounds, but mostly the ones at 2:00 and 2:40)

Just for reference, the Dub Trio clip is the Moog LPF, the Jojo Mayer clip (with Tim, not John Davis) sounds like the OC-2 and I'm guessing the Gorillaz clip is an actual synth.

Joe Gress · #4 08-31-2009, 10:54 PM

Short thread on that Jojo Mayer clip:
This sound. How? (Electronica)

fightthepower · #5 08-31-2009, 11:04 PM

The MS-20 will do the trick-- it can cop similar tones to the Moog, though with more clarity and a more focused resonant range, true bypass, etc. I still prefer the Moog for bassy stuff, but I use and thoroughly enjoy the Photron (ms20 clone) as well, and if I could only have one do-it-all filter with a focus on synth tones, it would be an MS-20 clone hands down.

**TheMutt** · #6 08-31-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Just for reference, the Dub Trio clip is the Moog LPF, the Jojo Mayer clip (with Tim, not John Davis) sounds like the OC-2 and I'm guessing the Gorillaz clip is an actual synth.

I stand corrected.

Didn't pay attention to the credits.

Floridabwoy · #7 09-01-2009, 07:35 AM

I can cop a similar tone to the JoJo Mayer 2:00 w. a FM4->Dano Chicken Salad, the 2:40 is an OC-2 and Gated Fuzz.

Gorillaz is defo a synth.

Dan_T · #8 09-01-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fightthepower

The MS-20 will do the trick-- it can cop similar tones to the Moog, though with more clarity and a more focused resonant range, true bypass, etc. I still prefer the Moog for bassy stuff, but I use and thoroughly enjoy the Photron (ms20 clone) as well, and if I could only have one do-it-all filter with a focus on synth tones, it would be an MS-20 clone hands down.

Yeah that was my only concern about the MS-20. Can it do the straight dub thing like the dub trio clip, or is it limited to more synthy sounds? I was thinking the one that someone here has from Robot Factory, which seemed like the photron without the envelope following. Can the photron use an expression pedal?

fightthepower · #9 09-01-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_T

Yeah that was my only concern about the MS-20. Can it do the straight dub thing like the dub trio clip, or is it limited to more synthy sounds? I was thinking the one that someone here has from Robot Factory, which seemed like the photron without the envelope following. Can the photron use an expression pedal?

The other MS-20 owners here essentially have stripped down versions of the Photron; The Photron has an expression input and yes it can be used for dub stuff-- I think the Moog is a little better because it resonates a wider frequency spectrum- therefor a big chunk of your lows go through the expansion process, but the Photron would be my second choice on a board with a Grinder (meatball clone), Prometheus, Fatman and the Moog. In general I think filters that are good for synth stuff are also good for dub tones.; funky envelope filters are too clean ime and have too steep of a cutoff and/or get too boomy.

One of the smaller MS20 clones like rnilson and other had made would probably do the trick nicely; The built in LFO section is nice, but I use an external LFO routed into the Freq expression input instead so it doesn't get use; if you do want the LFO section, one thing to think of is that Mario can mod it for exp control over LFO width and depth, mine came with both but again, they don't get use (those two inputs can not be modded for active CV use -ie MP201, only work with regular exp pedals)

Dan_T · #10 09-01-2009, 05:10 PM

Thanks! This sounds good. I feel like rnilson's was the one I saw originally. I'm not too worried about the LFO type of thing, though I guess it'd be nice to have the option. The only other thing I was wondering is if the MS-20's band pass sounds like a wah, or more synthy again? I really like the sound of the Wilson wah but think I would go with one or the other.

jufros · #11 09-01-2009, 05:24 PM

I think what I really want is Mario's Hydra Filter with an LFO section that can modulate each filter independently or both simultaneously. With that and the Moog for synth and the AF-9 for funk, I seriously doubt that I could possibly want anything else.

JBTucci · #12 09-01-2009, 06:38 PM

I want this and I bet a lot of other people do to.

http://www.martoneaudio.com/BrainFreeze.htm

Hollow Man · #13 09-01-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Soetoro

I want this and I bet a lot of other people do to.

http://www.martoneaudio.com/BrainFreeze.htm

Dude, I was just on Mario's site today and those new additions weren't there! Man, he's got no fewer than five pedals that I want!

Dan_T · #14 09-01-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Soetoro

I want this and I bet a lot of other people do to.

http://www.martoneaudio.com/BrainFreeze.htm

That's exactly the one I was thinking about. I must have been looking at an old version of the site because that wasn't there last time I looked.

rnilson · #15 09-01-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_T

Thanks! This sounds good. I feel like rnilson's was the one I saw originally. I'm not too worried about the LFO type of thing, though I guess it'd be nice to have the option. The only other thing I was wondering is if the MS-20's band pass sounds like a wah, or more synthy again? I really like the sound of the Wilson wah but think I would go with one or the other.

I have the original Brain Freeze...It was an custom job that got turned into stock item. It does wah sounds very well it is not just a synth filter.

Jared Lash · #16 09-01-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnilson

I have the original Brain Freeze...It was an custom job that got turned into stock item.

That's what I figured it was. It's basically the Photron filter without the envelope section right?

rnilson · #17 09-01-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

That's what I figured it was. It's basically the Photron filter without the envelope section right?

You are correct.

Dan_T · #18 09-01-2009, 08:24 PM

Alright! I have been suitably convinced. Thanks for the advice everyone! I'll work on getting getting one as soon as possible. Any recommendations for expression pedals? The only one I know of is the Moog ep-2.

Hollow Man · #19 09-01-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_T

Alright! I have been suitably convinced. Thanks for the advice everyone! I'll work on getting getting one as soon as possible. Any recommendations for expression pedals? The only one I know of is the Moog ep-2.

+1... just getting into expression-type stuff, and I could use some good recommendations too.

rnilson · #20 09-01-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_T

Alright! I have been suitably convinced. Thanks for the advice everyone! I'll work on getting getting one as soon as possible. Any recommendations for expression pedals? The only one I know of is the Moog ep-2.

EP-2 sucks....Look at the giant metal boss one I forgot what it is called.