Synth effects: single pedal or modular?

OptimusPrime · #1 08-27-2009, 12:40 PM

Well, I might be starting a rap sort of project with a friend of mine who just quit his band. Bass and drums only. Might be instumental, maybe not.

And, I realized, I need to be able to make quite a few different synth sounds. Should I go with a single pedal? Like the EHX BMS or Octavius Squeezer. Or go the modular route? Using separate fuzz, filter, octave and modulation pedals.

Is a gated fuzz an absolute necessity for convincing synth sounds? Or could I get away with the Way Huge Swollen Pickle I plan on buying? Moving on to the envelope portion of the equation, 3Leaf Groove Regulator? Or maybe a 105Q?

I've got the MicroPOG and MXR flanger already. Hell, I get some pretty good sounds just running µPOG -> ValveDrive -> MXR flanger. Any help would be great.

Also, could tremolo and reverb contribute to synth sounds?

Thanks.

Hector_G · #2 08-27-2009, 01:29 PM

I've found there are just SOOO many options and possibilities.
The combinations of effects are endless. I think if you're going to do some original music with your band, it doesn't absolutely matter if you choose either a single pedal or seperate ones.
It's not like anyone is going to go up to you after a show and tell you, "Hey man, that just wasn't a very convincing synth sound you did up there."

I've listened to endless clips of people experimenting with pedal combinations. Each and every one has some unique and good sounds going on. (well, not EVERY single one)

All of the options you've mentioned in your post is a great way to start.
However, if you're going to drop that much cash on the Octavius Squeezer, I think you'd be pretty much set for a while. Have you read the manual? Jeez, you'll be spending plenty of time learning that one pedal alone.

I think it is possible of achieving a good sound with a Swollen Pickle along with a filter alone. But for me, you just can't beat a gated fuzz in this territory.

It's a lot of fun experimenting. I'm sure you'll enjoy it and will become happy with any choice you do make. But a warning... On behalf of everyone on TB. Welcome to the world of excrutiating and endless GAS.

Hector_G · #3 08-27-2009, 01:32 PM

Oh... and here....
I just posted this video in another thread.
The Boss SYB-5 is a cheap and pretty good way to start getting a feel for synth effects.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwhyiZrkAjQ

groooooove · #4 08-27-2009, 02:05 PM

i never got so hip to having a "synth board" and i do tons of synth sounds. why buy 5 pedals to get synth sounds when there are synth pedals already available..

i used to do hip hop with a messdrive, oc-2, and korg g5. most of the time i would only need the korg. if i was still with that group i'd prob have an octavius.

kevteop · #5 08-27-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groooooove

i used to do hip hop with a messdrive, oc-2, and korg g5. most of the time i would only need the korg. if i was still with that group i'd prob have an octavius.

I bought my Octavius Squeezer mainly to replace a Korg G5 and another pedal (Robot Factory Pulse Synth) for use in hip hop -derived music but the tracking isn't quite there yet. I wouldn't currently recommend it to anyone looking for a note-tracking oscillator.

We are fairly overdue for a firmware update though I think. Richard at Chunk was talking about tracking improvements back in April but there's been no update since then.

I think this is why a lot of people use a gated fuzz instead of a VCO - avoid the tracking issues completely, but still get a harmonically-rich sound to start from. And the gate effect gives you more of a keyboard effect between notes, no tell-tale hissy noise or harmonic squeaks. If you're playing something like D&B or other house-derived music it probably doesn't matter, but if you really do need a square wave or a saw, a fuzz isn't going to be good enough.

groooooove · #6 08-27-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

I bought my Octavius Squeezer mainly to replace a Korg G5 and another pedal (Robot Factory Pulse Synth) for use in hip hop -derived music but the tracking isn't quite there yet. I wouldn't currently recommend it to anyone looking for a note-tracking oscillator.

We are fairly overdue for a firmware update though I think. Richard at Chunk was talking about tracking improvements back in April but there's been no update since then.

I think this is why a lot of people use a gated fuzz instead of a VCO - avoid the tracking issues completely, but still get a harmonically-rich sound to start from. And the gate effect gives you more of a keyboard effect between notes, no tell-tale hissy noise or harmonic squeaks. If you're playing something like D&B or other house-derived music it probably doesn't matter, but if you really do need a square wave or a saw, a fuzz isn't going to be good enough.

from everything i've seen, octavius apparently can't replace a deep impact or g5. whats with the pricetag?

i've since sold my g5, but am expecting a deep impact to arrive today or tomarrow. also used to have a BMS.. so, i'll give some knowledge as to wich one i like best for hip hop stuff.

another thing i havent used in a hiphop setting but absolutely would, is my chunk brown dog.. settings with low-med gain with a lot of clean blend, just sound..well..gangsta.

jufros · #7 08-27-2009, 03:59 PM

+1 on the Brown Dog. Get an octave, moog, and chorus too and you'll have a LOT of sounds right there.

kevteop · #8 08-27-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groooooove

from everything i've seen, octavius apparently can't replace a deep impact or g5. whats with the pricetag?

TBH I'm not a big fan of the DI. The tracking's a bit glitchy in places, and I didn't think most of the sounds were very useful, they seemed a bit gimmicky. The G5 does have ultra-reliable tracking but again I only ever used one of its sounds, the rest sounded fairly poor to me, either woolly (the stacked octave sounds) or over-done (the formant filter voices) or just plain poor (the distorted voices). And the envelope follower bothered me because no setting completely switches it off except centering the first knob, which means you've got no tone control unless you want it to quack. Irritating.

IMO the O.S. is worth the price just for the programmable fuzz and filter and tap-tempo modulation, well if you use filters a lot anyway, it's just a shame that the tracking on the VCO isn't good enough. If they do improve it in the future through a firmware update (and they are intending to) then it will be a mighty box.

But really what alternatives are there in terms of VCO sounds? The FreqBox, but I've yet to hear any examples of that being practical for anything but noise applications. And the price tag is not very attractive.

fightthepower · #9 08-27-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

But really what alternatives are there in terms of VCO sounds? The FreqBox, but I've yet to hear any examples of that being practical for anything but noise applications. And the price tag is not very attractive.

The Freqbox is great and the tracking is pretty damn good as well. Here are a few clips of it from a while back:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7768646 - This shows the tracking with a DOD octoplus; add an eq in the middle cutting highs/boosting lows and it gets even better. Then put a Philosophers Tone compressor at the beginning of the chain and it gets ridiculous! **EDIT* Actually I think that clip was an octaver+geb7 eq+freqbox, and this clip starts off just the octoplus into the freqbox; this clip starts with just just the oc2+freqbox, Freqbox tracks the DOD's solo'd octave better, but with an eq in between there is no difference.

And here a couple of the Freqbox in use with other pedals- these clips are just from a couple first-jams to new beats, and these clips were made a while back right after I had first figured the Freqbox out. I should really upload some new clips, Ive been using the Freqbox on almost every song and have it really well dialed in now.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7721411
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7721396
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7671731

jufros · #10 08-27-2009, 07:18 PM

Courtesy dubstep bass octave->Moog clip for thought...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=8026786

icarussmicarus · #11 08-27-2009, 08:43 PM

If you need lots of of different synth tones, my suggestion is to buy a keyboard synth and avoid the whole pedal thing. I'd probablly buy a loop pedal too so I could record a fat-as-possible clean/slightly OD bassline then play keys over it.

You pedal board with triple/quadruple in size before you can get 'lots' of usable synth tones. Just getting a few will give you a few sounds that might useable but will always have similar character - so you go and get more pedals to vary the situation more and before you know it you've got rigs the size of the guys posting in this thread

kevteop · #12 08-27-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fightthepower

The Freqbox is great and the tracking is pretty damn good as well.

Do you have any clips of you playing more than one or two notes per bar? The O.S. will track that reliably too, it's fast playing that gets problematic.

Hector_G · #13 08-27-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jufros

Courtesy dubstep bass octave->Moog clip for thought...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=8026786

That.... sounds.... AWESOME.
Where can I get more info on that thing?

Oh wait... I'll use the search... I guess.

jufros · #14 08-27-2009, 09:10 PM

It's just MXR Bass Octave Deluxe -> Moog MF-101 with an expression pedal controlling the cutoff frequency. If you want to get dubstep/dnb sounds, you should really get the Moog and an analog octave pedal. It's awesome.

Lindsay · #15 08-27-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptimusPrime

...
And, I realized, I need to be able to make quite a few different synth sounds. Should I go with a single pedal? Like the EHX BMS or Octavius Squeezer. Or go the modular route? Using separate fuzz, filter, octave and modulation pedals.

The problem I have with pedals like the BMS is they're not programmable. For all the grievances people have listed with the Deep Impact, Octavius Squeezer and G5, at least they are programmable.

As far as I'm concerned, the modular route is worse in a live situation because you often need to trigger multiple pedal to change your sound mid song and adjust multiple pedals between songs. You end up concentrating on your pedals rather than your playing or performance.

Also, in my experience, some synth-in-a-box pedals sound cleaner, broader spectrum and more hi-fi through the FOH, whereas a modular set-up can cover the 'dirty synth' sounds reasonably well but just doesn't have the same sparkle and presence. I guess it depends on what you're looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

The G5 does have ultra-reliable tracking but again I only ever used one of its sounds, the rest sounded fairly poor to me, either woolly (the stacked octave sounds)... ...Irritating.

Completely agree. And I'll add one more gripe: it's HUGE

It does one (important) thing better than any other pedal but it takes up a lot of real estate in the process.

The synth mega-thread talked this pedal up, but I think it's a big a** one-trick pony (but it's a gooood trick).

fightthepower · #16 08-28-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

Do you have any clips of you playing more than one or two notes per bar? The O.S. will track that reliably too, it's fast playing that gets problematic.

There are multiple spurts in the clips I posted; a few parts in the first clip- the fastest I think being at around 1:50 where I do a quick run through the first four notes on each string starting at the 12th fret. If I get around to it I'll upload something else.

jufros · #17 08-28-2009, 01:14 AM

If people here were raving about the tracking on the OS or Freqbox, I would definitely snag one.

markjazzbassist · #18 08-28-2009, 07:18 AM

i'd say go modular. get yourself a chunk brown dog, octaver (foxrox, boss oc-2), a decent filter (qtron, 3leaf, agent 00 funk), and call it a day.

you'll have a lot more variation with 3 pedals then with just the one.

rnilson · #19 08-28-2009, 07:59 AM

GO Modular!...OC2>Brown Dog>Moog 101 your set!

All_¥our_Bass · #20 08-31-2009, 03:41 PM

I tend to like multiFX for when one needs to use a bunch of stuff at once to get synthy tones, but some units don't have everything or don't let you do certain things, so I'd say a multi with some outboard gear before and/or after-depending on what you need and what you like, etc.

Here's something I'd suggest you try. It's kinda modeled after Holdsworth's "liquid lead" sound.
Bass(with tone pot all the way down) > compressor(make sure it squashes your signal pretty good) > Fuzz(moderate to high gain) > Flanger(set to very slow sweep) > Reverb(set how you wish) > Delay(set how you wish)