Synth Rig / All-Purpose Rig Redesign Concept

jufros · #1 11-19-2009, 03:19 AM

So as I'm sure some of you have noticed, I've been selling a lot of gear lately. I decided that I was sick of the limitations involved in a rig centered around pedals. It's just much too complicated to switch up sounds on the fly and be able to recall your killer ones when you need them. So, I'm getting rid of the vast majority of my pedals.

I'm going to be keeping my Aguilar Octamizer, Boss OC-2, Boss GEB-7, Mammoth Clone, Brown Dog, and Freqbox. The Freqbox is pretty tall, but I'll be able to fit these 6 pedals in a rack drawer if I leave 3 spaces for them (including the drawer). Each pedal will go in a separate loop of a Rocktron Patchmate unit so that I can bypass them or engage them as needed.

My bass will first be split (with a buffer) and sent 3-ways. The first split will be sent through an instrument-line level converter and to the first input of a MIDI-controlled line mixer. The second split will be to the converter and then to the octave pedals. The third split will be fed into the trigger input on the MAM Warp 9.

The bass signal will be sent to the input of the Axe-Fx Ultra (utilizing output 1 of the mixer). That will get routed right back to the mixer (using input 2).

The octave pedals signal will be reconverted to line level and fed to input 3 on the mixer. That signal will be yet again converted and sent to the fuzz pedals (output 2) which will then go to the 4th mixer input.

The Axe-Fx Ultra has an effects loop of its own. That will run clean through input 5 and output 3.

The Warp 9 will go through input 6 and output 4. The Novation Super Bass Station will go through input 7 and output 5.

This leaves the last output (7) for the power amp. So... what exactly is being sent there? Pretty much whatever I want.

With the AKAI MB76, you can route any input to any number of outputs on each preset. So I can have, for example, octave->fuzz->Axe-Fx->filters in parallel->back to the Axe-Fx for modulation. I can have that sound in series, but I can also have every element in parallel, or some combination of both.

This is going to give me a TON of flexibility and options. The Axe-Fx has its own internal mixer with 4 parallel channels, and you can build a virtual 12x4 pedal board with it. So I'll be able to have my octave sound, octave->fuzz sound, original synth sound from the Axe-Fx, and then the octave->fuzz sound through the analog filters, EQ and compress them all differently, put modulation on half of them, and then send that to the power amp.

The best part about the whole setup is that it's going to be really fast to setup and break down. I won't have a pedal board anymore, just a midi foot controller.

It's also going to be plenty usable as a "normal" bass rig. The Axe-Fx will be my preamp, and it has tons of models, filters, EQ options, compressors, etc. and after having heard this thing in the flesh, I can tell you that they all sound fantastic.

So, the rig will consist of...

Rack 1 (8 spaces)
Pedals (3 spaces)
Patchmate (1 space)
MAM Warp 9 (1 space)
Novation Super Bass Station (1 Space)
AKAI MB-76 (1 space)
Ebtech HE-8 8 Channel Instrument-Line Level Converter (1 space)

Rack 2 (4 spaces)
Axe-Fx Ultra (2 spaces)
Power Amp (2 spaces)

Behringer FCB-1010 MIDI foot controller

I want to separate the Axe and power amp so that I can just take the 4-space rack to a jam, etc. and have a lightweight rig that can cover a lot of ground on its own. I'll add the massive rack when necessary, but even with that addition, I'll sill be using up less space in the car than I was with the PT-Pro + Rack.

icarussmicarus · #2 11-19-2009, 04:23 AM

Whatever, just make clips for us plebs

gastric · #3 11-19-2009, 11:58 AM

I'm interested to hear how you overcome the limitations in the FCB1010 in regards to CC control. You have to permanently map each expression to a specific MIDI channel. If your gear cannot internally map that to route to specific MIDI gear you're locked into the expression controlling a single piece of equipment only. For example, Expression A mapped to Channel 10 which is your MAM, Expression B mapped to Channel 11 which is your Bass Station. Leaves no expression for your Axe. Or maybe you don't need expression control on one of the devices.

You seem to be a good problem solver so I look forward to what solution you come up with.

jufros · #4 11-19-2009, 04:18 PM

Beat me to it there. I just realized looking through the manual. MP-201 has spoiled me with seamless quad-CC expression control...

Looks like I need a different controller.

gastric · #5 11-19-2009, 06:18 PM

Yes, it's very disappointing you cannot at least program the MIDI channel per-patch or something on the FCB1010. Let us know what controller you come up with. I never looked at the higher end Roland controllers, but if their controllers are anything like their multi-effects you should be able to program the bejesus out of it and still get two expressions and lots of patch buttons.

Jazz Ad · #6 11-19-2009, 06:59 PM

The way I see it from here, you sold a bunch of pedals to finance a Boeing control panel?

icarussmicarus · #7 11-19-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

The way I see it from here, you sold a bunch of pedals to finance a Boeing control panel?

I can just imagine a co-pilot getting on board to help with the controls, taking over when he needs a nap. Maybe a nice flight attendent to sweeten the deal?

jufros · #8 11-20-2009, 12:28 AM

I dunno guys. I got a chance to play a hex-equipped MIDI bass through a bunch of my keyboards today during a The Axe-Fx Ultra is on the way but a humongous part of me is now completely addicted to playing bass through my Access Virus. And yes, the tracking was really surprisingly good with the GK-3b and Roland GI-20. It takes more of a delicate touch than the OC-2 to get the most out of the system, but then even my girlfriend calls me out for having a stereotypical bass player philosophy whenever I relish in the subtle articulate funkiness of "meaninglessly detailed" snare drum ghost notes...

I tried the Virus into the Warp 9 mixed in parallel with a Novation Bass Station and it was pretty much all over for me I have to say. I'm selling all of the pedals. I'll be using Axe-Fx as a bass-guitar signal processor and route a rack of synths into its 2nd input. I'm thinking I'll swap ROMpler synths for something with great sampling. I'll use that to sample Virus patches and then run those through the Axe-Fx and Warp 9/Bass Station. The MB76 will give me tons of routing options. Maybe I'll buy back the Waldorf Pulse analog module that I sold a year and a half ago.

I think this is going to make a lot of sense for me. The AXe-Fx will be an absurdly versatile preamp and be more powerful of an effects module than pretty much anything out there, but the whole rig (including the Axe) will be an extension of my synth rig, and the two will evolve together now. Makes a lot of sense and I don't know why I didn't do this earlier.

seanm · #9 11-20-2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

The way I see it from here, you sold a bunch of pedals to finance a Boeing control panel?

Captain: This is your Captain speaking. We are about to switch to patch 2, there may be some turbulence.

Co-pilot: Switching to patch 2.

Co-pilot: Captain, Captain, the wah is breaking up.... it cannot take the strain!

Captain: Lower the levels on the distortion and trim back the chorus!

Co-pilot: I can't do it.... it's too much for me. OMG, we are all going to die!

Captain: Pull yourself together man! This is what you trained for!

Co-pilot: Yes Sir, sorry Sir. Lowering levels and triming the chorus.

jufros · #10 11-20-2009, 12:52 AM

I'm all about trimming back the chorus.

fightthepower · #11 11-20-2009, 01:23 AM

So whats it going to be tomorrow?

jufros · #12 11-20-2009, 01:31 AM

Exactly, right? Don't kid me though, I'm sure you of all people here know that the process and the experimentation is more than half of reason to do this sort of thing. But now it's addictive in the same way that practicing an instrument becomes once you cross that threshold where you realize, hey, I've always known that I have my own original ideas, but now I'm realizing them in a way that I couldn't really have possibly explained to anyone or even myself really.

Plus, the more confident you are in your sounds, your feel, approach, whatever, the more people will appreciate what you're doing.

Speaking of which... what are your CP-251 plans?

If you're sticking with the MP-201, you have got to try one of these Warp 9 filters out man. Definitely satisfying the aggressive and responsive needs that I was previously addressing with the Photron, but then you get all kinds of cool LFO routing and you can stack its internal LFO's with MP-201 LFO's via CV. And it has a trigger input and you can use that to modulate resonance and cutoff... I love...

bassbmx · #13 11-20-2009, 02:00 AM

Sounds super geeky but I can't wait to hear clips.

jufros · #14 11-20-2009, 02:13 AM

I'll definitely try my best to put something up in the next few weeks.

bassbmx · #15 11-20-2009, 02:20 AM

I'd love to take the MP-201 off your hands if I had the money!

fightthepower · #16 11-20-2009, 03:22 AM

Haha.. I can dig it, will be cool to hear what you do with whichever type of rig you end up with.

I'm definitely sticking with the MP201, and have the CP-251 coming to use as an extension of the MP201 among other things (ie inverting lfo phase to change the 'starting point' of the lfo, the 4 way mult, etc). I want more MIDI/CV capability as well at some point, and when that time comes will either invest in a 2nd MP201, or something like Volta or Silent Way; the status of the MP201 next firmware release and its LFO upgrades, relative to when Im ready to make the move, will decide which direction I take. Im tempted to just buy yours and sell my FCB1010, and use your MP primarily as a MIDI controller.. but I need the FCB's extra footswitches..

I've kept an eye out for a Warp 9 on an off, but they don't seem to pop up all that often and Im not interested in them anymore for my personal use, and a rack filter would not be convenient in my current configuration anyway- they do sound great though; racked pedals + switching system is not out of the question, but even seriously looking into it is a ways down the list of things do/try/learn/buy/etc.

So... get your act.. err rig together and post some clips already!

gastric · #17 11-20-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

The way I see it from here, you sold a bunch of pedals to finance a Boeing control panel?

The "control panel" will theoretically be a lot easier to use in a live setting. Try stomping 5 different pedals on. Then in a split second stomping 4 of them off and 2 different ones on.

In contrast with a full MIDI controlled set of gear you stomp one button on your MIDI foot controller, the gear does the rest for you via automation. Skies the limit, really. The downside is you have to carefully pre-program everything. But once it's all setup in theory it's da bomb.

Nyarlathotep · #18 11-20-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jufros

I'm selling all of the pedals.

You talking about the ones that were gonna be in the 3 space shelf?

What's the system looking like now?

speak_onion · #19 11-20-2009, 08:36 AM

YOU'RE WELCOME FOR THE WARP 9 TIP. Seems like you're digging it. It really is spectacular. So many people are skeptical because only 12dB/Oct, but it can hold its own with any 24dB filter. I have totally ruined my chances to ever get another one, though, because I can't keep myself from talking it up at every opportunity.

That Akai mixbay thing seems amazing! I had never heard of it before.

I still don't really understand where you're going right now. I'll just wait patiently for pics/clips when it's complete.

Also, if you really are going to do the MIDI thing, I think a Nord Micro Modular as an "oscillator" section then into Warp9 and SBS as "filter" section, then Axe as "FX" section would probably be the best thing ever. The MIDI bass thing doesn't work for me, because I rarely play notes, but yeah, I've thought about that type of setup so much.

jufros · #20 11-20-2009, 04:35 PM

Besides the obvious advantage of being able to trigger oscillators, the biggest reason that I can see to go with the MIDI pickup and MB76 mixer setup is just the sheer amount of parallel processing abilities you get. Once you don't have to rely on clever parallel routing in your signal chain and everything can be mixed in parallel, all of a sudden you have a TON of options.