Tech 21 Liverpool on bass?

[blujosh]

anyone used a Liverpool with their bass?

wondering how it sounds. i have a set up where i use my electric 5 string bass as both a bass (both clean and overdriven) as well as a guitar at times (using a micro pog for polyphonic octave up + distortion pedal). so, i'm in the market for something that sounds good w/ both bass and guitar, but especially set up clean with the occasional dirt pedal in front of it.

i currently have the para driver, but not a huge fan of how it takes dirt pedals, and doesn't quite have the "mojo" that the few character pedals i've tried have.

[willbassyeah]

Not sure how they will sound but I am guessing the low is tuned to about 120-140 hz( from the manual) so I am guessing if you are looking for thick bass sound it will be hard to get from this pedal.

[mjac28]

I was wondering about this pedal as well for my Beatles I was also looking at the Leeds but the Liverpool is a Vox emulator.

[Meddle]

There is a fairly standard mod for all the Tech 21 pedals to make them suitable for bass. Somebody offers them online, but I think a user here came up with the design?

[FaithNoMan]

Holy cow!

I was just going to make a post about this. Isn't info on the Liverpool on bass hard to find?? It was the same way with the Oxford, but if it's anything like it, it will work great on bass.

I have been using an Oxford forever, with good results trying to get an aggressive tone direct. I used the Leeds before and it was way to tame on high-end aggression, the PSA-1 before that, the Tri-A.C. before that, and I had a BDDI that my friend now owns.

I was curious about the Liverpool because I like the top end of players like Squire, and early Billy Gould in Faith No More(obviously).

So, I recently started Guitar Rig when I record guitar, but have a thing about recording bass all analog for some reason, mostly because I despise latency and favor the bass. I decided to try it with bass, and completely hated all the bass settings they had in there.

So, I tried the Vox guitar setting with my Darkglass B3K, and it sounded much better for the tone I was going for.

Now I want a Liverpool.

Here is the Oxford in a mix:
https://soundcloud.com/centaurus_a/darkox

Here is that bass track by itself:
https://soundcloud.com/centaurus_a/b3k-oxford

Here is the Vox plugin:
https://soundcloud.com/centaurus_a/b3k-oxford

I have more clips of different Tech21 pedals and more on there, if you are interested. I shall warn ye about my playing, though:
https://soundcloud.com/centaurus_a/s...-tone-crusades

[FaithNoMan]

Originally Posted by Meddle

There is a fairly standard mod for all the Tech 21 pedals to make them suitable for bass. Somebody offers them online, but I think a user here came up with the design?

The Liverpool might be alright without the mod. The British needed the mod, but my Oxford has more than enough bass to cover the low-end

[AndyLES]

I have one for guitar. It sounds okay, but the low end loss is significant to my ears.

[blujosh]

are y'all referring to the blend knob mod offered by Putnam Guitars and the like?

just for the record, i'm not looking for an agressive tone from whichever sansamp pedal, i'm looking for a for a cleanish base which i can play both guitar and bass thru and drive with other dirt pedals (of which i have no short supply) in front of it.

[AndyLES]

It still has too much of a low end loss. Trust me on this one...

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Meddle

There is a fairly standard mod for all the Tech 21 pedals to make them suitable for bass. Somebody offers them online, but I think a user here came up with the design?

Actually, Mike Putnam from www.putnamguitars.com came up with the design after I asked him if there was anything that could be done for the British pedal to make it more bass friendly.

It's not a blend knob, but a knob that will add low end frequencies to the British pedal. Made it a lot more usable with bass. You can, however, get a blend knob installed on it by Mike. Don't know anything about the Liverpool pedal, but if you absolutely must have the Vox sound and need more lows out of the Liverpool, Mike can do this mod on it as well.

[blujosh]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Actually, Mike Putnam from www.putnamguitars.com came up with the design after I asked him if there was anything that could be done for the British pedal to make it more bass friendly.

It's not a blend knob, but a knob that will add low end frequencies to the British pedal. Made it a lot more usable with bass. You can, however, get a blend knob installed on it by Mike. Don't know anything about the Liverpool pedal, but if you absolutely must have the Vox sound and need more lows out of the Liverpool, Mike can do this mod on it as well.

it's not that I must have the vox sound, i'm actually not even searching for that particular sound. i guess i was just wondering if anyone has used this pedal in that sort of context - modded or not.

i guess my real question is which sansamp pedal, if any, has anyone used to good effect as a cleanish base for both guitar and bass w/ dirt pedals in front of it for when they need things dirty/distorted?

[FaithNoMan]

Originally Posted by blujosh

it's not that I must have the vox sound, i'm actually not even searching for that particular sound. i guess i was just wondering if anyone has used this pedal in that sort of context - modded or not.

i guess my real question is which sansamp pedal, if any, has anyone used to good effect as a cleanish base for both guitar and bass w/ dirt pedals in front of it for when they need things dirty/distorted?

I heard from many people that the Blonde does great great cleans, on bass and guitar. That one might be your go-ticket

[FaithNoMan]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Actually, Mike Putnam from www.putnamguitars.com came up with the design after I asked him if there was anything that could be done for the British pedal to make it more bass friendly.

It's not a blend knob, but a knob that will add low end frequencies to the British pedal. Made it a lot more usable with bass. You can, however, get a blend knob installed on it by Mike. Don't know anything about the Liverpool pedal, but if you absolutely must have the Vox sound and need more lows out of the Liverpool, Mike can do this mod on it as well.

Hey Jimmy - I just talked to Mike about possibly modding a Liverpool, and although he said it may not need it as much as the British......that was one of the nicest business owners I've talked to in a long time.

I hope to give him business in the near future. What a cool dude!

[JimmyM]

Ya, Mike rocks, and his turnaround time is insanely quick.

Anyway, the VT would be the traditional answer for which Character pedal does best with bass.

[pbasswil]

Originally Posted by willbassyeah

Not sure how they will sound but I am guessing the low is tuned to about 120-140 hz( from the manual) so I am guessing if you are looking for thick bass sound it will be hard to get from this pedal.

Actually, I _love_ thickening my bass sound in the 100-200hz octave. You can get low end shelving (hinging around 60-80hz) on so many devices (amps/mixers/pedals etc), but you have to search to find good EQ in that crucial lowest-mids area.

I like the sound of the Liverpool on guitar -- at least from web demos. I too would be curious how it works on bass.

[FaithNoMan]

Originally Posted by pbasswil

Actually, I _love_ thickening my bass sound in the 100-200hz octave. You can get low end shelving (hinging around 60-80hz) on so many devices (amps/mixers/pedals etc), but you have to search to find good EQ in that crucial lowest-mids area.

I like the sound of the Leeds on guitar -- at least from web demos. I too would be curious how it works on bass.

Here's a few recordings with the Leeds on my Ric from when I owned the pedal:

http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

(I added slight post-eq on this one)
http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1


Here's my favorite of the Oxford by itself:

http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

Hope that helps.

[tech21nyc]

Originally Posted by blujosh

are y'all referring to the blend knob mod offered by Putnam Guitars and the like?

just for the record, i'm not looking for an agressive tone from whichever sansamp pedal, i'm looking for a for a cleanish base which i can play both guitar and bass thru and drive with other dirt pedals (of which i have no short supply) in front of it.

You said you have the Para Driver but it's not working for you. Since you already have it I would suggest giving it another shot. It has a more generic amp emulation compared to our other pedals but for a basic clean tone for both bass and guitar it should work. Try it with these settings. Blend up full, treble at 2 o'clock, mids 11, bass at 1 and mid shift at about 10 o'clock (around 500Hz). Because the midrange is before the drive you usually have to use the level control to balance the response of the mids and drive controls.

I use our Leeds pedal for both. Some use the VT Bass for both as well since Ampeg rigs were popular with guitarists as well as bass players.

[Corey Y]

I have a Liverpool at home, but I've never used it for bass. I could make some demos of it, if you let me know what settings you'd like to hear or just want a general overview. I have used the British (just to find out how it sounded) and my experience with that was it sounds decent if you go very light on the Mod level, as it gets dirty pretty quick. Which can be good, if that's the sound you want.

I could run the pedal direct with or without speaker emulation, with a cab impulse or through a power amp into an Eminence Basslite loaded 1x10. Let me know, I'd be happy to do it tonight after work and post the soundcloud link.

[blujosh]

Originally Posted by tech21nyc

You said you have the Para Driver but it's not working for you. Since you already have it I would suggest giving it another shot. It has a more generic amp emulation compared to our other pedals but for a basic clean tone for both bass and guitar it should work. Try it with these settings. Blend up full, treble at 2 o'clock, mids 11, bass at 1 and mid shift at about 10 o'clock (around 500Hz). Because the midrange is before the drive you usually have to use the level control to balance the response of the mids and drive controls.

I use our Leeds pedal for both. Some use the VT Bass for both as well since Ampeg rigs were popular with guitarists as well as bass players.

Tech21nyc, thanks for the response.
were the sample settings you suggested for both bass and guitar? my biggest complaint with the para driver is that it doesn't go from clean to gently dirty when driven by OD/fuzz/boost pedals as nicely as the character pedals do, particularly the blonde. otherwise the design is quite nice, especially the blend knob (wish all the character pedals came with one!)

[tech21nyc]

Originally Posted by blujosh

Tech21nyc, thanks for the response.
were the sample settings you suggested for both bass and guitar? my biggest complaint with the para driver is that it doesn't go from clean to gently dirty when driven by OD/fuzz/boost pedals as nicely as the character pedals do, particularly the blonde. otherwise the design is quite nice, especially the blend knob (wish all the character pedals came with one!)

Sample settings in general are just to get you in the ballpark. It really comes down to a number of factors starting with you. Some players just have a more aggressive attack and some use a really light attack so even with the same exact instruments and settings the result may not be the same.

The Para Driver and VT Bass are different circuits but they use the same basic technology for generating distortion. That "clean to edge of breakup" is the hardest thing to get and it also depends what you are playing into. Direct, bass amp, guitar amp etc.?

You may need to change the settings when going from bass to guitar as each instrument will accentuate different frequencies and respond differently. I would start with a basic tone like I suggested and then go back and forth between your bass and guitar to find the right settings for each instrument. Yeah it would be nice to have a preset but if you're playing a Music Man and a P Bass or a Les Paul and a Tele through the same amps you would be presented with the same problem.

We use the blend on our DI's because in a bass guitar application it is common practice to mic' an amp and run a direct signal. The Character pedals are emulating specific lineages of vintage amps and there is no such thing as a "blend" control on an SVT. B15, Marshall etc. For electric guitar the blend would be pretty much useless. If you are going direct it's easy enough to run a direct signal along with the amp emulated sound.