Tim Lefebvre using Ring Mod...

[rnilson]

Any one know what ring mod is being used in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-jKB1UJMIU

It seems to keep the pitch somewhat intact. I don't know alot about ring mods but when I played with a moog one a while ago it seems to me that when I engaded it the tone coming out was pretty unrelated to the pitch I put in. I know that a ring mod is an addative/subtractive synthesis and those tones are pushed together but how do you use that when the pitch note needs to be in tune???......

[Kromwarp]

I read in a Bass Player article that Tim's favorite Ring Mod is the DOD Gonkulator

[markjazzbassist]

wow what a cool tune and creative bass playing. i'm going to have to get some more uri caine and tim lefebvre.

thanks

[rnilson]

Originally Posted by markjazzbassist

wow what a cool tune and creative bass playing. i'm going to have to get some more uri caine and tim lefebvre.

thanks

Yeah Tim gooves hard, but his playing is so free and open at the same time. I am really trying to learn how to do that but it is way hard.
That trio is called Bedrock 3 they are sick.
The have 3 albums.
There are more clips on youtube.

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Just checked out the Caine album "Bedrock"- Time Lefebvre gets a SICK filter sound on "Skins."

[rnilson]

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

Just checked out the Caine album "Bedrock"- Time Lefebvre gets a SICK filter sound on "Skins."

Yep, Moog LPF!!! Every one rags on it as an envelope follower. I think it is hella synthy with a clean tone or an octaver, even more so if you run another clean occillator blended on top of it. My fav is the heleotrope. I don't really don't like dirt under it.

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I figured. I'd love one, but still can't justify the pedalboard space.

[rnilson]

Originally Posted by Kromwarp

I read in a Bass Player article that Tim's favorite Ring Mod is the DOD Gonkulator

Gonkulator Hmmm...
Looks like one of those pedals everyone hated when it was in production, but now that they stopped making it everyone wants one.

I tried getting this tone with my helieotrope but no luck. This sounds more like a real Ring Mod.... What are my in production options for a ring mod besides the EHX FA and the Moog both those things are huge and I don't have the room.

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I think Copilot makes one.

[markjazzbassist]

tim's band rudder is insane too. this article has his gear

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/ru...e/aug-09/98549

[bigchiefbc]

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

I think Copilot makes one.

+1 - The copilot android is a sweet ring mod. On the upper end of things, there's also the Randy's Revenge, which I've heard people rave about.

[fightthepower]

Great video, new to me so thanks for posting

I'm almost positive its the Moog Ringmod-- you can see a quick glance at his board at 2:40-2:45 and all the way on the left side is an exp pedal followed by a Moogerfooger with what appears to be blue switches, ie Moog Ringmod.

As far as keeping it in tune.. there I'm guessing he set the knob to a position that gives him a few 'in tune' notes at a given spot (he doesn't seem to use it all over the neck); or the knob/heel down position to give him a few notes in one range, and the toe-down position to give him a few more up/down the neck; I don't think any regular ringmodulator will be any more in or out-of-tune than another, well except for the Gonkulator because you only have one Carrier freq to choose iirc, so much fewer areas of in tune playing available from the pedal-I know Ringmodulators all sound somewhat similar, but it really sounds like the Moog to my ears.

As far as using on in tune.. you're somewhat limited but using an exp pedal can help, and with the MP201 you could shuffle presets or use the A/b/c pedal to switch between a few in-tune ranges as the song dictates. Here is something I read on another forum that makes some sense out of Ringmodulation and the bands it produces; if your song has a few notes that you want to be able to play in tune, you could plug in some different values and find

Background
A bit of the theory of ring modulation. The ring modulator takes two signals as input and outputs the sum and difference of those signals. For example, if you input signal x and signal y, then the ring mod outputs signal x+y and signal x-y.

Some basic examples of what a ring mod does:

Ex. x=220 Hz, y=30 Hz.
x+y = 250 Hz
x-y = 190 Hz

Ex. x=220 Hz, y=220 Hz
x+y = 440 Hz
x-y = 0 Hz

Ex. x=220 Hz, y=440 Hz
x+y = 660 Hz
x-y = -220 Hz, which we hear as 220 Hz

Sometimes, the output sounds in tune, sometimes not. It all depends on how the audio and carrier frequencies relate. Because of this, ring modulators can produce all sorts of interesting sounds.

Still with me?

Pitch-shifting the audio and using it as the carrier
I started thinking about what happens when the carrier signal is a pitch-shifted version of the original signal. What happens with the sums and differences then? Lots of interesting things, but it took a bit of head-scratching to think things through.

Part of my initial confusion is that ring modulation works by adding and subtracting frequencies, but pitch shifting works by multiplying frequencies. I had to refresh my memory about how to work with ratios.

Ex. x = x, y = x (the carrier is the same as the audio signal)
sum = x+x = 2x
difference = x-x = 0
This produces an output an octave above the audio signal.

Ex. x = x, y = (3/2)x (the carrier is pitch-shifted a fifth above the audio signal)
sum = x + (3/2)x = (5/2)x
difference = x - (3/2)x = -(1/2)x => (1/2)x
The sum works out to be a major third an octave above the audio signal. 5/2 is equivalent to 5/4 when octave reduced. 5/4 is the just intonated major third.
The difference frequency is half the audio signal frequency, which is simply an octave below the original audio signal.


Ex. x = x, y = 2x (the carrier is an octave above the audio signal)
sum = x+2x = 3x
difference = x-2x = -x, which we hear as x
The sum works out to be three times the frequency. This octave reduces to 3/2, which is a just intonated fifth. So, the sum frequency is an octave and a fifth above the audio signal.
The difference frequency is the same as the original audio signal.


Ex. x = x, y = (4/3)x (the carrier is a fourth above the audio signal)
sum = (7/3)x
difference = -(1/3)x, which we hear as (1/3)x
The sum signal octave reduces to (7/6)x, which is a just intonated minor third, an octave above the audio signal.
The difference is equivalent to a perfect fourth above, but is in the octave below the audio signal.

I've used the HOG's pitch-shifted signal as the Carrier and its Dry out as the Input, and got the octavia +oct tones in the upper regions of the neck, but not the strongest sounding and same thing with the different pitches, but recently read that the Carrier In should ideally be a line-level signal, so I'm going to try reamping or just boosting it I guess and see if it produces stronger results.

[bass.bert]

nice concert!
i'm quite sure it's an ehx frequency analyzer (unpainted aluminium enclosure and 3 black knobs). > 0:11 in another clip from the same concert. the ringmod seems to be the silver pedal next to the moogerfooger. you can see & hear him tuning the carrier freq at 3:25. he grabs for the pedal next to the fooger. which would be the filter then – couldn't imagine tim without!

some sounds are similar to these here in this demo. kinda deep with the filter at 1:37.

Originally Posted by markjazzbassist

tim's band rudder is insane too.

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

Just checked out the Caine album "Bedrock"- Time Lefebvre gets a SICK filter sound on "Skins."

hey, also check out some old boomish stuff. great beats by tim & zach.
i absolutely love this boomish nonsense (sorry, totally off topic)

[rnilson]

Thanks FTP yeah I thought it sounded like a moog ringmod also. I think there is a huge difference in the moog and others I have heard. The moog just sounds very "clean" if that make sense.

[JohnDavisNYC]

i know tim was always into the gonkulator, but i have no idea what he's using now... and anyway, even with effects, it's all in your fingers....

tim is a seriously bad cat, and i got a ton of my **** from him.

john

[warwick.hoy]

subbed,...for the sheer fact that this is some sick ****.

[bigchiefbc]

Wow, that was absolutely fantastic. Just based on these two clips, I just went and bought the Bedrock CD.

[rnilson]

Glad you guys are digging it! The first Bedrock 3 CD has been in constant rotation in my car for several years now. The level of improvisation on that CD is so beyond comprehension.

[Mingus Addict]

These videos are great. Someone should post them in the 'awesome effects on bass videos' thread or whatever it's called.

Anyway, just wanted to throw in that I don't think it could possibly the Gonkulator because, as bass.bert pointed out, he adjusts the carrier freq. I don't think you can do that with the FX13. I like EHX Frequency Analyzer theory.

[rottenramone]

bedrock! i bought their cds online couple of years back when my friend from the drum collective turned me on to them. they sound like gameshow music in the 2nd one tho.... interesting song titles too.