Tips/features for a custom Compressor pedal

[alexlotta]

HelloGuys.
i found one guy here In italy who i going to make a compressor pedal .
The basis of that ,
would be the Demeter Compulator , for his transparency and so a candidate to be an "alway on" pedal.

*Off course that could be a direct call to Bongo ,The guy who tried the most here about compressors In general*
But instead to Pm him ,i find useful to ask in public to share and collect ideas.

...SO Mainly ,
What would You Add to a "Demeterish compressor" as a feature?
i'm speaking about really any detail that can come in handy, as outs , power section for headroom or features that can be more towarded to Bass In respect to the original pedal. But nothing too weird off course.
.
For example a balanced output or stuff like that ,now i'm just gonna searching useful leads.

______-_______

2) My Main idea ,Actually
was to order a pedal as sort of "bicomp" ,
With 2-compressor in -1 :
1 Extremely Transparent , and 1 colorful as an orange for example ,to use almost as an effect ,
To have both worlds all in 1
...and maybe with the chance to "parallel the 2 comp or chain them" ,but i don't know if a chaining option is that useful or if it would just mess the tone.

I play mainly 5 -6 strings ,so Lowb gets always in game ,
and that's why
i did'nt consider an original analogman bicomp ,as both side of this comp are not the "state of art" for the Lowb.

WHat You think about ?

[alexlotta]

--
Right now the guy told me he got some schematics ,and
Is trying to do the first things ,
He got a "Photoresistence" with value 35 micro-sec,
And the Demeter has a value 1,5 m-sec ,so he ordered the right value ( i didnt even confirm an order to him still,but the guy started to experiment on his own after my request of infos ,and i liked that "Hype").

He stated that with 35ms is very transparent ,and and 1,5 instead grants a bigger compression and a bigger release time.
-----

About the transparent part ,
More controls of trhesh and so could be useful ,but other that experimented with adding controls (Diy forums) told me that results for some reason were'nt as good as supposed.Adding stuff suck tone away or something ,
but it was way more complex explication.

[dannybuoy]

If I were going to improve the Demeter, I would make give it higher headroom by making it 18v compatible (the Diamond comp can run at 9v - 24v for example) and also move the trimpot that adjusts the threshold into a proper knob.

A lot of Orange Squeezer clones are meant to be pretty noisy, including the latest 'official' one with Dan Armstrong's name on it. Make sure you find a good one and use good quality parts!

Good luck with the pedal.

[bongomania]

Recommendations:
-increase the headroom, to avoid distortion.
-give control over the input level (including both cut and boost) which helps with distortion but more importantly allows the user to optimize the compression response for their particular bass's output level.
-improve the noise filtering at the DC jack.

Some people would wish the Demeter had more control over the attack, but if you like the attack of the Demeter then it's a non-issue.

[alexlotta]

Thanks ,i Also cared About input level as I thought on the difference existing between passive and active bases ,or different preamps.

But Did'nt think about noise filtering on dc jack as i'm not aware of those things,heard that pedal is the less noisy one.
That's definetely a thing i'm gonna discuss with the Guy,and a bit clearer in my mind^^,good.

I was thinking about the photo resistence he mentioned , if could be that a"knob-able" option ,but i don't know really what part is it,

or the threshold knob mentioned by dannyboy ,But in that case i did'nt read people complaining with the treshold as an issue in the post i found ,so i presumed was really optimized on those demeter pedals.If it there,ok.
Here in Italy demeter is rare and impossible to try in Shops,so i don 't have a direct experience.I'm looking for something to keep -always on -in that case.

And i wonder if balanced out thing could be also cool to go direct in recording session ,as an xlr out or stuff like that.
____
what you think about the idea to have the second comp with "flavour" ,Do you fancy?how would you handle that in that case,keeping the stuff less noisy as possible?

[Jim C]

Maybe a few led's to see how much compression is being used and when it is hitting

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by alexlotta

what you think about the idea to have the second comp with "flavour" ,Do you fancy?how would you handle that in that case,keeping the stuff less noisy as possible?

Yes, I've suggested a few times in the past that a dual-band comp with completely different circuits on the high and low bands could be very cool. In the past I suggested the Demeter for the low band and a Ross clone for the high end. It is a complicated system though- a crossover and mixer with no audible distortion, phase, or signal loss problems... very difficult to do.

If you just wanted a colorful comp to alternate with the clean one, then try the Frantone Sandwich.

[alexlotta]

I have a little question ,after reading Bongo review of Compulator,which states that

"some people complain that it softens their note attack" :

-What would that depend from ? : "too-fast"-Attack ,or "too-long" release?

-after speaking with the guy ,he decided to give me a partial endorsement for it ,
which i gladly accepted .So i'm really excited in thinking at how to do
"as It ,but more of it" .
The trimpot for gain wll be a knob ,so no screwdriver needed when witching bass with different pickup (easy to do).

-Any Of You Know about "Photoresistance" (or "photoresistor"?) and what that implies in a compressor?
Basing by his first tests ,The less value (1,5ms is the original value) photoresistor gives More compression perceiped , as The Release Is longer :could be that the feeling of "softer attack" th. was mentioned?

In that case ,a second selectable value would benefit (if possible to add ,still to ask).

-Sometime ,when i record ,i set 1 compressor outboard + 1 limiter On the rack i use as a A/D conversion ,that 's as i like To hear the Spike of certain aggressive sound ,
but still they are too "spiky" in digital Domain causing Clips ,so
ii have to set Gain accordingly or use limiter .
When i set the gain accordingly , then the non-spiky sound ,is not "vibrating-living " enough.
I can adjust volumes afterward ,but still i feel is Not "what i played".
i live with that ,
but what If i would integrate a limiter as Second stage on the pedal ,
would be That a nice idea ?
And in that case ,thinking it as a brickwall ,what would be best settings inside,keeping it as a simple switch(on/off) + level command?

____________________________
____________________________
Side note
As a help To understanding what i would be after
.. i'm essentially a Rock player ,but always played Styles when bass is "Clear",though played almost aggressively.
I use different technique at the Right hand,expecially when i record,
and lately i'm having fun experimenting with a little tech i 've developed for myself ,
similar to Double Thumb but "Rock oriented"
(one day i will buy a webcam, impossible to explain with words and think is interesting to share)
:for that last particolar one i need a
Comp that helps me in getting the Kick of a slap sound ,but the clarity of a "finger (or Tap)compression .
An example i have played on my myspace ,there You hear a song i have composed and played for bass,To try to demo that tech.
But I had To TWEAK the SOUND A LOT just to let hear the notes,
As the sound was either too "slappy" =not so clear on all the notes ,as the passages are quite full of notes ,
or "not enough kicky" =after tweaked ,they sounded as "scales" , and not with that "kick which let the sound i did "on his own" when played , on my humble opinion.

------
So any technical suggestion for that Would be great (like 2 compressor or compressor + limiter).
I will do my best to Don Bother You All unnecessarily ,Off course.

thank you and take care,
Alex

[Swift713]

I guess I like a limiter for recording but not as part of my rig. I sometimes use the compressor on my pedal board plus the comp on my Bassbuddy. It gives me a super smooth sound that's really thick. I would suggest maybe the Demeter-like optical comp plus something like a Ross clone or a DBX. Make them both as flexible as possible and if possible have separate routing so they can be run in either order and/or with various other things in between. I would enjoy playing with such a gadget.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by alexlotta

"some people complain that it softens their note attack" What would that depend from ? : "too-fast"-Attack ,or "too-long" release?

It is mostly a combination of a fast attack and the soft/smooth quality associated with optical compression.

Originally Posted by alexlotta

Any Of You Know about "Photoresistance" (or "photoresistor"?) and what that implies in a compressor?

An optical comp uses a light source which lights up brighter depending on the strength of the instrument signal. A photoresistor is a resistor that increases its resistive value depending on the amount of light shining on it. So the light (brighter from higher instrument signal) shines on the photoresistor, which makes the value of the resistor go higher. The amount of resistance is used in the circuit to control the level of the signal coming out.

So the design of both the light source and the photoresistor can change the "flavor" of the comp quite a bit. It's not just speed of attack and release, but also the slope of the increase or decrease.

Originally Posted by alexlotta

Sometime ,when i record ,i set 1 compressor outboard + 1 limiter On the rack i use as a A/D conversion ,that 's as i like To hear the Spike of certain aggressive sound ,
but still they are too "spiky" in digital Domain causing Clips ,so
ii have to set Gain accordingly or use limiter .
When i set the gain accordingly , then the non-spiky sound ,is not "vibrating-living " enough.
I can adjust volumes afterward ,but still i feel is Not "what i played".

That is a problem with most compressors and limiters. A lot of what we hear as that special "vibrating/living" sound is transient spikes of amplitude at certain frequencies--these spikes give the sound a more dynamic and organic quality. Those spikes are flattened by the limiter, so even though the frequency information is still there, it no longer has the psychoacoustic effect that it did before.

There are only a very few comps I have tried which do not have this negative effect to such a degree, and they tend to be the most expensive ones. My favorite is a modern variation/clone of the Urei LA3A, made by ADK. It's an optical circuit, but the light source and photoresistor have a very special custom design, not the common type you find in electronics supply catalogs. Two other Urei designs, the LA2A and 1176, are revered for use in recording bass. The LA2A is another optical design, but the 1176 uses FET transistors.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "perfect" limiter, because there are always compromises of some kind.

Originally Posted by alexlotta

thinking it as a brickwall ,what would be best settings inside,keeping it as a simple switch(on/off) + level command?

Very fast attack (close to instant), very high ratio (infinity:1), very fast release (10-200 mSec), adjustable threshold.

[alexlotta]

tx,gonna check the LA3A ,even if i understood that is not possible to imitate ,due to the custom desing (custom components i assume).
I dunno if You got something ,looking inside that ADk unit (i see you are studying to make Your Own stuff in the future) But
If You have a diagram or photos i could pass to him (in that moment i'm much forwarded ion that pedal actually).
I found he's really an "opened to everything" guy,maybe because he started from 1 year or so to do that audio stuff, and i could ask him if something is "clonable" or if he got what's different there .
------------
At the moment the guy is testing the demeter-like one ,and he told me he was really impressed with the fidelity ,
once analyzed the spectrum of signals:he ordered a lot of photoresitors to test with different values ,to see if it's worthy to have More than one available on the same unit.
**
ALso he told me he would like to insert an INTERNAL selectable limiter in the midlle of the circuit (did'nt get exactly),something related to eventual handling of hot signals ,like after enevelope filter or sort. The normal gain input is already mounted on the surface-prototype .
(i ordered An Envelope Mxr m-188 by the way ,and just now i discovered he does a personal version of it for very cheap price,stupid me i did'nt ask him before).

Guess i wait to hear from him with his tests on that
Ty for tips

[alexlotta]

Ok.. it looks th. from the tests
(Misures by machines ,not plucking bass actually at the moment ,as I work at "distance "with the guy ).
Different optoresistance gives subtle/and drastical Different
Attack-release times ,depending from Value ,
so we Are approaching to put put different Photoresistances as directly selectable .
More info as I will actually play it
( just if someone minds or curious ,off course).