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  #1  
Old 02-01-2011, 11:49 AM
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Tone Knob as a pedal

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Silly question for all you guys, but I thought maybe someone has tried this. (A thread search yielded no positive results.)

So for all you guys who play active basses, we can't really get the same effect as a proper tone knob. So I was thinking that a good way to fix this would be to buy $8 in parts and slap together a tone knob as a stomp box.

Has anyone tried this before? If yes, how well did it work out?
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:56 AM
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Though exaggerated, isn't that technically a wah?
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  #3  
Old 02-01-2011, 12:02 PM
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i thought of this, since it would allow me to put it anywhere in the effects chain too...

i guess putting a few feet of cable in front of it would change the tone a bit, but probably not much...
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanM View Post
Though exaggerated, isn't that technically a wah?
not really - i don't think the OP meant it to be foot-controlled

plus, a wah is a whole different thing.... I'd rather call it a LPF for that matter...
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:17 PM
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Good idea, actually. While I love my audere jz3 preamp and have intention of swapping it out in the near future I kinda miss my tone knob.
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:50 PM
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Great idea! If you could make a switchable tone/volume pedal, I'd be all over it.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:14 PM
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My 5 string bass has no passive tone control and i had my repair buddy fix me up a tone box with switchable capacitors (.022 & .047) and a bypass. Don't use it often but it is handy.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BrandonBass View Post
Good idea, actually. While I love my audere jz3 preamp and have intention of swapping it out in the near future I kinda miss my tone knob.
It was because of my JZ3 that I really started to think about this. I love an active EQ, but I also love the effect that you can get with a tone knob. The parts for it are easy to find (if we don't already have some of them sitting around). Then a project box from Radio Shaft (or the case from a burnt out stomp you haven't thrown away) and BAM!!!

I think that I need to convert my burnt out sonic stomp into this.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:17 PM
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My 5 string bass has no passive tone control and i had my repair buddy fix me up a tone box with switchable capacitors (.022 & .047) and a bypass. Don't use it often but it is handy.
Good to know.
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  #10  
Old 02-01-2011, 05:04 PM
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  #11  
Old 02-01-2011, 05:22 PM
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If you mean just capacitor and pot, it wont work. Classic passive tone control needs pickup impedance to work the way it work. Solution would be to add pickup emulation (like transformer people use in buffered fuzz pedals or simply get some cheap 'bucker p'up like GFS) and proper input and output buffers.

edit:
and workaround would be to use second order low pass filter (state variable would be best), but problem is that tone knob emulation would require specific dependence of cutof freq and Q, which is not readily available outside modular synth rig.

Last edited by recnsci : 02-01-2011 at 05:26 PM.
  #12  
Old 02-01-2011, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by recnsci View Post
If you mean just capacitor and pot, it wont work. Classic passive tone control needs pickup impedance to work the way it work. Solution would be to add pickup emulation (like transformer people use in buffered fuzz pedals or simply get some cheap 'bucker p'up like GFS) and proper input and output buffers.

edit:
and workaround would be to use second order low pass filter (state variable would be best), but problem is that tone knob emulation would require specific dependence of cutof freq and Q, which is not readily available outside modular synth rig.
Ok. So I need you to explain why this circuit requires the pup impedance to be present. According to everything I have ever read about guitar electronics, the tone circuit is a simple bleed-off circuit that varies the total impedance to high frequencies. How does the pup impedance interact with it? What's the math for that?
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  #13  
Old 02-02-2011, 02:32 AM
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Pickup has high mostly inductive impedance. So in first order modeling, lets swap p'up with 1st order equivalent circuit which would consist of voltage generator Vemf which represents total EMF induced in p'up, DC resistance of p'up Rdc, inductance L and series conection of pot nad cap across p'up R and C (which is tone control; I've ignored p'up equivalent internal capacitance to simplify equations).

Output would be:

Vout = Vemf * [(1+sRC)/(ssLC+s(R+Rdc)C+1)]

which is typical second order reponse.
When tone knob is fully open, R is 250K, and response is dominated by internal and cable capacitance Cint (not represented in equation above for reasons of clarity) with response 1/(ssLCint+sRdcCint+1). When you start to close tone knob, R drops and series RC conection start to dominate, with R reducing damping - incerasing Q of resonant circuit.

If you just put pot and cap in buffered box, it would act as simple first order RC which is not what passive p'up + tone control behave like (response would be (1+sRC)/(1+s(R+Rout)C) where Rout is output impedance of whatever is driving tone circuit). So you must put something that would simulate p'up impedance.

One more thing, that simple RLC representation of p'up impedance is simplest model, because of nature of pickups closer model would be of considerably higher order. So closest aproach would be to put some actual cheap p'up in pedal.

further reading:
Magnetic pickups
Pickup emulation
RC circuit
RLC circuit

Last edited by recnsci : 02-02-2011 at 06:49 AM.
  #14  
Old 02-02-2011, 08:24 AM
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If I understand correctly the middle knob on this puppy does what you want.
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend....dal?sku=484191
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