Tone sucking pedals?

[loend68]

I've been using a Boss ME-50B live for a while and have recently started building a pedal board. Some of the new songs warrant some better/different sounds. I brought out the group of pedals I plan to use to the last couple shows to test them out before I build the board. I notice that I'm getting a little less 'grind' from my bass and wonder if there's an obvious tone sucker in my chain. It's tolerable, I would just like to avoid it if possible.

I'm using an active Spector in this order:
bass > Ampeg Sub-octave > Akai Deep Impact > Boss ODB-3 > Boss DD-3 > amp.

All the pedals are powered by a One-Spot.

Is one of these pedals sucking some juice out of my sound or maybe is the One Spot not effectively powering them?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[bassplayerbob]

I haven't used those pedals yet but I was having the same issue. I ended up looking for pedals with a wet and dry knob to mix. You can also try splitting your signal to a mini mixer and adjust wet and dry that way.

[Testing_123]

Your 1-Spot has plenty of juice for those four pedals -- it's rated for 1700 mA output. Current draw for the Ampeg Sub-Octave is listed at 2.5 mA, the Deep Impact is 180 mA, ODB-3 is 15 mA, and the DD-3 is 65 mA.

Under what circumstances is the effect (less "grind" than expected) most apparent -- when all of the pedals are bypassed, or when certain pedals are engaged? This distinction should help with troubleshooting the issue.

[jmattbassplaya]

You could always get a Boss LS-2 and run loops to cut down signal loss.

[JP Morin]

Do you have active or passive bass... using a lot of jacks or a bad one with passive bass may be an issue

[loend68]

Active bass........

I notice the lack of grind with all of them off.....it's not much, but I can tell....

[bassplayerbob]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

You could always get a Boss LS-2 and run loops to cut down signal loss.

I just got one yesterday. Trying it out tonight.

[Testing_123]

Update:

I ran some rough calculations based on the listed input/output impedance figures for those pedals. The Sub-Octave's output impedance is 10K, and the Deep Impact's input impedance is 500K -- that's the pedal-to-pedal connection where you're likely "losing" the most signal, but it comes to only around 1.9% loss of voltage -- I'm not certain how noticeable that would be to the ears...

You might try swapping the positions of the Akai DI and the ODB-3 -- the ODB-3's 1M input impedance ought to preserve more signal coming from the Sub-Octave.

(To preserve the most signal from step to step, you want low output impedance signals running into high impedance inputs.)

[NewLaw83]

I would try "isolating" each pedal by itself. Try each pedal on its own and hear if you lose anything. Have you tried this yet?

[Awesomenaut]

Originally Posted by Testing_123

Update:

I ran some rough calculations based on the listed input/output impedance figures for those pedals. The Sub-Octave's output impedance is 10K, and the Deep Impact's input impedance is 500K -- that's the pedal-to-pedal connection where you're likely "losing" the most signal, but it comes to only around 1.9% loss of voltage -- I'm not certain how noticeable that would be to the ears...

You might try swapping the positions of the Sub-Octave and the ODB-3 -- the ODB-3's 1M input impedance ought to preserve more signal coming from the Sub-Octave.

(To preserve the most signal from step to step, you want low output impedance signals running into high impedance inputs.)

It's my understanding that it shouldn't matter much with an active instrument, no?

[lowendblues]

Experiment where you have each pedal in the chain. I used to run my Boss chorus after my VT pedal and my tone seemed "thin" when I'd kick it in.

I moved the chorus in front of the VT, and it sounds great. Dont know why,,some may argue, but it just does.

[loend68]

I'll try rearranging some of the pedals.

I was in the studio a little while back and the preamp he plugged me into (bass direct) had an adjustable 'buffer' (?) which actually 'tamed' my pickups a little. I wonder if this is what's happening.
Do you think the sound will change when I switch the octave and the odb-3? I use them in conjunction for 'Uprising'....

[loend68]

Originally Posted by Testing_123

Update:

I ran some rough calculations based on the listed input/output impedance figures for those pedals. The Sub-Octave's output impedance is 10K, and the Deep Impact's input impedance is 500K -- that's the pedal-to-pedal connection where you're likely "losing" the most signal, but it comes to only around 1.9% loss of voltage -- I'm not certain how noticeable that would be to the ears...

You might try swapping the positions of the Sub-Octave and the ODB-3 -- the ODB-3's 1M input impedance ought to preserve more signal coming from the Sub-Octave.

(To preserve the most signal from step to step, you want low output impedance signals running into high impedance inputs.)

So: bass > Akai DI > sub octave > ODB-3 > DD3 ?
or: bass > ODB-3 > Akai DI > sub octave > DD3?

[Testing_123]

Sorry, I think I suggested swapping the wrong pedals. I'll correct my post above. What I meant to suggest was an exchange the positions of the #2 and #3 pedals in the chain.

So, instead of your current sequence of:
Sub-Octave > Akai DI > ODB-3 > DD-3

Try:
Sub-Octave > ODB-3 > Akai DI > DD-3

That *should* cut signal loss due to impedance mismatches between pedals from approx 2% to around 1%.

Again, I'm not certain that 2% voltage loss is enough to cause the problem you're hearing (particularly with an active bass), or if a drop from 2% to 1% would result in any audible difference.

Throwing this out as more of a curious hunch than a high-confidence diagnosis...

[loend68]

Thanks! I'm kinda throwing this whole thing out there as a discussion. It's really not that bad, I was just wondering if there was an obvious problem to my set up.....

[dmot002]

Here is your answer ....

Xotic Effects X-Blender Demo Page

[loend68]

Originally Posted by Testing_123

Sorry, I think I suggested swapping the wrong pedals. I'll correct my post above. What I meant to suggest was an exchange the positions of the #2 and #3 pedals in the chain.

So, instead of your current sequence of:
Sub-Octave > Akai DI > ODB-3 > DD-3

Try:
Sub-Octave > ODB-3 > Akai DI > DD-3

That *should* cut signal loss due to impedance mismatches between pedals from approx 2% to around 1%.

Again, I'm not certain that 2% voltage loss is enough to cause the problem you're hearing (particularly with an active bass), or if a drop from 2% to 1% would result in any audible difference.

Throwing this out as more of a curious hunch than a high-confidence diagnosis...

I tried this and it definitely seemed better....but I'm going to tangle things more. I'm adding a MXR M80 to the front and a BassBalls to the back. Thoughts on this?

bass > M80 > Suboctave > ODB-3 > Akai DI > DD3 > BassBalls

?

[Bob C]

Since you're getting the tone suck with all of the pedals off, I agree you should try the X-blender or some other true bypass blender or looper.

If you don't want or need to blend, there are several options for switching the pedals in and out of your signal chain.

But if changing the pedal order helps, that's great too.

[loend68]

Will putting the whole thing in the effects loop of my amp change anything (TC Electronics RH450)?

[grimniggzy]

Originally Posted by lowendblues

Experiment where you have each pedal in the chain. I used to run my Boss chorus after my VT pedal and my tone seemed "thin" when I'd kick it in.

I moved the chorus in front of the VT, and it sounds great. Dont know why,,some may argue, but it just does.

I ended up doing the same thing.
It started b/c it made sense to use the VT last to control my amp since I was using it straight into the Power Amp In on my amp.
In the end I actually thought it sounded a TON better.