Trying to be a Bass Player and Rhythm Guitarist at the same time?

thisSNsucks · #1 05-07-2009, 10:44 AM

Hey guys, this is my first time venturing over to the effects side and I admit, I know next to nothing about effects.

Here's my quick story. My band has been a five piece for about a year (bass, drums, rhythm guitar, two lead guitars) Things were going well for us up until 2 months ago when our rhythm guitar player, and dear friend was killed in a car accident.

Instead of taking time off we've been going at it strong, kinda doing it for him you know? Anyway we've tried out a few friends that play guitar but it just feels better being the four of us, so thats how we've decided to keep it.

Which brings me to my question, is there anyway to be the bass player and fill in that rhythm guitar at the same time? We pretty much always played the same notes (the rhythm guitar player and myself) There are some drum and bass duo's that seem to be doing it well (death from above 1979, Om)

Do I just need a good distortion pedal, maybe one with a good clean/distortion blend feature? An octive pedal?

Any advice would be great. Thanks!

bigchiefbc · #2 05-07-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thisSNsucks

Hey guys, this is my first time venturing over to the effects side and I admit, I know next to nothing about effects.

Here's my quick story. My band has been a five piece for about a year (bass, drums, rhythm guitar, two lead guitars) Things were going well for us up until 2 months ago when our rhythm guitar player, and dear friend was killed in a car accident.

Instead of taking time off we've been going at it strong, kinda doing it for him you know? Anyway we've tried out a few friends that play guitar but it just feels better being the four of us, so thats how we've decided to keep it.

Which brings me to my question, is there anyway to be the bass player and fill in that rhythm guitar at the same time? We pretty much always played the same notes (the rhythm guitar player and myself) There are some drum and bass duo's that seem to be doing it well (death from above 1979, Om)

Do I just need a good distortion pedal, maybe one with a good clean/distortion blend feature? An octive pedal?

Any advice would be great. Thanks!

It really depends how authentic you want it to sound. But I would say that at least a clean blend (or a Y splitter and an amp with two inputs), an octave-up and a distortion are going to be needed to do it convincingly.

Here is a clip of me doing that with a ABY pedal, an EHX POG and a proco turbo rat. (my amp has two inputs)

Akai made a pedal called the Unibass that combined the octave up and distortion into one pedal; its out of production now, but that's another option

UncleFluffy · #3 05-07-2009, 10:59 AM

Lemmy does it pretty well, so it's definitely possible. You might want to use his setup for ideas, though he relies more on lots of chords, his ric's inherent tone and a very mid-boosting amp setup.

SoonerMatt · #4 05-07-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

It really depends how authentic you want it to sound. But I would say that at least a clean blend (or a Y splitter and an amp with two inputs), an octave-up and a distortion are going to be needed to do it convincingly.

+1. An EHX POG or microPOG will be your best best choice for the up, and for the distortion you're just going to have to play around with a lot of pedals to find "your" tone. Apart from those it's all experimentation.

Kenny Allyn · #5 05-07-2009, 11:40 AM

After going round and round with two different guitar players and then a keys player to fill out our sound we decided to just stay with guitar, bass, drums and singer. I kinda found myself in your position and set about catching some of the vibe from both a second guitar and keys. So a pedal board seemed the way to go.

This is my “final” board

EBS Multi-comp gives me a perceived clean boost to stay up in the mix.

EBS Octabass used usually with the Micro Vibe and Voodoo Bass to get low B3 organ vibe

EHX Micro POG set to get an up octave presence sometimes used with the Micro Vibe and Voodoo Bass

Micro Vibe gives me a low fullness on slow tunes and has a slight treble sweep on top so it helps with the keys thing

The VT Bass adds SVT fullness and is great pushing the Voodoo Bass

Voodoo Bass is the overdrive into fuzz and really sits in the mix unlike many fuzz type pedals

... Mostly I run clean with just the compressor or VT Bass

**DosiYanarchy** · #6 05-07-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

I
Akai made a pedal called the Unibass that combined the octave up and distortion into one pedal; its out of production now, but that's another option

And not only does it do octave up, it can do octave up + 5th up for a power chord (you could be the ramones), as well as an Octave up + 4th down.

they can still be had for reasonable prices and sound pretty good (the distortion sounds digital, but what some do is run the effected output to a distorted guitar amp, and the clean output to a bass amp)

cheapbasslovin · #7 05-07-2009, 12:08 PM

This is really spendy, but will do all you want and more.

HOG.

It will do 5ths and 3rds and step bends and octave bends and attack delays and LP filtering with resonance controls.

Combine that with a fuzz and your in business for your lead guitar sound. It has a bit of a learning curve, as I still haven't completely figured out all I can do with mine, but I love it.

wazzel · #8 05-07-2009, 12:44 PM

Root plus 5th strumming higher up the neck. I've see a couple of three pices use that (Goo goo dolls comes to mind). You only really need to do that over solos.

wetzelman1 · #9 05-07-2009, 12:45 PM

there are plenty of bands with only 1 guitar, including my own band. I find the most useful thing isn't needing effects, but changing your style. Means more roots and less leads. You really need to hold the music together instead of just providing the low end.

but a good distortion (not fuzz) seems to have also helped during wailing guitar solo's.

RickenBoogie · #10 05-07-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetzelman1

there are plenty of bands with only 1 guitar, including my own band. I find the most useful thing isn't needing effects, but changing your style. Means more roots and less leads. You really need to hold the music together instead of just providing the low end.

but a good distortion (not fuzz) seems to have also helped during wailing guitar solo's.

+1 (and sorry for your loss)

4StringsEnough · #11 05-07-2009, 01:34 PM

I used to have an Akai Unibass which, as has been mentioned, was designed specifically for what you want. I prefer the sound of the Octave up on the Micro Pog going into Fuzz and then blended back with the original bass signal. Sounds complicated, but it's only 3 small pedals (Micro Pog, Fuzz, Blender) and it'll also do a lot more than just simulate a rhythm guitar.

Jebus_ · #12 05-07-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4StringsEnough

Sounds complicated, but it's only 3 small pedals (Micro Pog, Fuzz, Blender) and it'll also do a lot more than just simulate a rhythm guitar.

I have been looking for a decent blender with cheap price tag a couple of days now but haven't been succesful.

Any recommendations? Most of these pedals seem to be only available USA and I really can't order anything above 50 bucks from outside of Europe (taxes..

)

**DosiYanarchy** · #13 05-07-2009, 02:49 PM

Boss LS2 - i just got my 3rd (or 4th?) of TaySte.

It does the job fantastically and is pretty cheap (well compared to ordering something from the states)

As well as the Unibass, i too have used the same setup as 4StringsEnough (except i has an analog Delay after the fuzz too) - i sounded like 1/3 of Iron Maiden, - especially with the Guyaton TZ2. Great for unison lines, sounded pretty convincing too.

totalimmortal08 · #14 05-07-2009, 03:22 PM

+1 on the whole lemmy setup

thisSNsucks · #15 05-07-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalimmortal08

+1 on the whole lemmy setup

Well I'd love a Rickenbacker...

Thanks for all the advice guys. Its really not like I have to be the rhythm guitar player all the time, but there are some points in our song where it needs that little layer of distortion to thicken things up a bit, ya know?

I'm gonna do a bit more research and see what the best route for me to go is.

Thanks again!

rcubed · #16 05-07-2009, 05:04 PM

I think this would be a great time to go stereo. Get another rig (maybe even a guitar rig) and send it all the effects while keeping your bass tone through your current rig.

JimmyM · #17 05-07-2009, 08:45 PM

Effects are cool, but it's all about the arrangement in a 3-pc. The guitarist needs to play leads that don't have a lot of dead air, and if you have a guitarist who can keep it going, you can pretty much just do the bassline as you would in a 4 pc. Or you can go off sometimes doing chords or drone notes to fill on, but don't be afraid to stick with what you'd do normally, too. You don't necessarily need to fill every hole. But this Micro Pog...man, that's an excellent thing for filling in some holes if you want to get experimental. Tracks chords and everything. And a distortion of some sort is almost mandatory these days.

Sorry about your pal. Hope you guys can make a go of it. 3-pc rocks!

Thunderscreech · #18 05-07-2009, 08:53 PM

here is how to play Bass and Rhythm Guitar at the same time:

1. Listen to Black Sabbath and The Who
2. Listen to how Geezer Butler and John Entwhistle play lots and lots of notes
3. Play lots and lots of notes.
4. add a little bit of dirt and grindiness, to taste
5. ???
6. Profit

You are now playing "lead bass" which is the same as what you just said.

coreyfyfe · #19 05-07-2009, 09:43 PM

For effects, I used a HOG with a few different settings, one is an octave up (with some sub octave to keep it thick) and the other uses the fifths and such to make a full rhythm guitar track above the note I'm playing. I've found that a distortion cuts better, but a fuzz works better to calm the high end digital sounds of the HOG. All that being said, you really have to adjust your playing to suit the guitar player. If the guitar player's part is full enough to carry, play all around, but when it isn't, sometimes you're stuck playing the root.

Lobsterdeth · #20 05-08-2009, 12:37 AM

I suggest you check out Boris (japanese band, look them up in youtube) their bass player sings and plays a double necked Steinberger bass/guitar. He sometimes doubles up as a rhythm guitarist.

Edit: Oh yes, my two cents, well.

A NYC Big Muff really cranks the highs on your tone, you should look into it if you ask me. Maybe a POG or Digitech Whammy. A guitar wah will help you out greatly too, trust me.