Two Amps: Wet + Dry

[PauBass]

After many attempts to keep the bottom end with pedal blenders (Boss LS-2, Xotic Blender) I'm never happy with the end result, it always loses some of the bottom end when I engage the effect so I'm seriously considering adding a second amp to my set up.

I'd like to have my clean tone on at all times and with blenders I've found that no matter what, you always lose some of that bottom end.

What's the best way to go around this?

[Jared Lash]

This isn't meant to be sarcastic, but you aren't losing your dry signal, you're blending it. A two amp set up is a nice situation to have, but it really isn't fundamentally different. If you had two clean amps and then kicked effects onto one of them, you'd have nearly the same experience as the blender. But a two amp set up does provide a much larger range of flexibility than a blend pedal ever could.

Oh, and not to pick on you, but why are "lose, loses and losing" so frequently misspelled with two O's? I see this all the time on TB.

[PauBass]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

This isn't meant to be sarcastic, but you aren't losing your dry signal, you're blending it. A two amp set up is a nice situation to have, but it really isnt' fundamentally different. If you had two clean amps and then kicked effects onto one of them, you'd have nearly the same experience as the blender. But a two amp set up does provide a much larger range of flexibility than a blend pedal ever could.

Oh, and not to pick on you, but why are "lose, loses and losing" so frequently misspelled with two O's? I see this all the time on TB.

Sorry English is not my first language and I'm at work so don't have much time to check the spelling ... Post edited.

Well, I thought having one of the amps running clean at all times would keep more the bottom end.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by PauBass

Sorry English is not my first language and I'm at work so don't have much time to check the spelling ... Post edited.

Well, I thought having one of the amps running clean at all times would keep more the bottom end.

With the spelling it's not a big deal, and I don't usually point out typos. But I just seem to see that same typo all the time on TalkBass and was curious.

Anyway, as I said, having a dual amp setup can give you a lot more flexibility in terms of which amps you use for wet vs dry and being able to EQ them separately. And another solution is to split your signal and only have the effects added to the highs, another technique that many bass players use.

But in a very simple sense, a dual amp setup won't give you more low end than a single amp setup (that puts out equivalent volume) with a blend.

Think about it like this. If you ALWAYS had a dual amp setup and ran both of them clean and then added effects to one of those two amps, you'd experience a drop in low end just as you are now. It's a matter of perspective.

[bongomania]

Agreed. There is no significant/practical difference in how audio waves blend electronically versus how they blend acoustically.

Yes there are differences with the many acoustic elements you can introduce, e.g. speaker positioning and reflections, but they all depend on essentially "un-blending" the signal.

[bongomania]

Also, what I think you may be experiencing with "losing the bottom end" when blending is one of two things:

1) Phase interference. Experiment with that phase switch on the Xotic. It doesn't absolutely cure phase interference (and in fact it can sometimes make things worse) but IME it solves that problem well enough, often enough.

2) Relative increase in the highs and high mids. A lot of the audio energy of distortion is in the upper frequencies, so when you blend that in with your full-range original signal, now the highs and high mids are essentially doubled in amplitude, while the lows of your dry signal are at the same level they were before. You naturally turn down the overall level of the blended effect for unity gain, and this results in an apparent reduction of lows. The solution is to simply adjust your EQ, or use an elaborate crossover system.

[PauBass]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Think about it like this. If you ALWAYS had a dual amp setup and ran both of them clean and then added effects to one of those two amps, you'd experience a drop in low end just as you are now. It's a matter of perspective.

My point and what I'm asking for is that there's many bass players out there using a second amp, sometimes a guitar amp, that they just kick in when they want to add the effects...I thought that second amp wasn't running clean all the time so therefore you wouldn't experience a drop in low end.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by PauBass

My point and what I'm asking for is that there's many bass players out there using a second amp, sometimes a guitar amp, that they just kick in when they want to add the effects...I thought that second amp wasn't running clean all the time so therefore you wouldn't experience a drop in low end.

I've heard of bass players that use guitar amps for distortion and bass players that use a dual (or even tri) amp setup to run clean and dirty rigs, but I don't know of any bass players that bring a a second amp that only turns on for effect usage. If there were the case, wouldn't the second amp, if it had enough volume for the effects to be heard/noticed, be adding a TON of volume to your sound in the mix?

Maybe there are people who do this, but I can't imagine how it is feasible.

[bongomania]

In that situation there would necessarily be a big jump in signal level, in the highs, every time the guitar amp was engaged. This is cool on a big stage, loud band, kick on the distortion for a boosted solo, etc. Not so practical if you're just talking about regular playing volumes and non-boosted, non-distorted sounds.

[PauBass]

OK, I think I was confused about how the two amp set up is used so that's the reason I'm asking, sorry.

So, having two separate amps, one clean + one with effects would be the same as using a blender pedal?

[Fishyfan]

Originally Posted by PauBass

OK, I think I was confused about how the two amp set up is used so that's the reason I'm asking, sorry.

So, having two separate amps, one clean + one with effects would be the same as using a blender pedal?

in essence. If you had a Bass amp and a Guitar amp, things would be different, but thats not what you want from what I gather.

[bongomania]

It also depends on what specific effects you want to blend. Makes a huge difference actually.

[ryognbass]

Originally Posted by Fishyfan

in essence. If you had a Bass amp and a Guitar amp, things would be different, but thats not what you want from what I gather.

i run this sort of setup. no spilt wet/dry signal though. full effected with no loss of bottom miraculously

[Fishyfan]

Originally Posted by ryognbass

i run this sort of setup. no spilt wet/dry signal though. full effected with no loss of bottom miraculously

So do I. I send an EHX BMS through the low amp, and two pedalboards of other noisemakers into a guitar amp.

[PauBass]

Basically it's going to be mainly for ovedrive and distortion effects.

[Higgie]

If anything, my X-Blender ADDS bass when I kick it on with my fuzz in the loop!

[MAMMOTHvolume]

Originally Posted by Higgie

If anything, my X-Blender ADDS bass when I kick it on with my fuzz in the loop!

yeah i'm not sure how the o/p is losing low end when blending with his clean signal, maybe he could do with more low end on his original signal

[PauBass]

Ok, guys, thanks for all the advice but it's not like, with the X-Blender or the LS-2, I loose alll the boottom end, that's not the case at all, I think I didn't explain myself properly.
It's just I'm never happy with the end result and I was thinking of the the two amp setup some people use to see if I can get a better result...All I want to know is what's the best way to do it

[bongomania]

bass --> Y splitter --> two amps

The best Y splitters are either buffered or transformer isolated. If you use a guitar amp as your distortion channel, then roll off all the lows on that amp for best results.

[PauBass]

Originally Posted by bongomania

bass --> Y splitter --> two amps

The best Y splitters are either buffered or transformer isolated. If you use a guitar amp as your distortion channel, then roll off all the lows on that amp for best results.

Thanks a lot Bongomania, that's exactly what I wanted to know.
Which splitter would you recommend?

Now, will it work better with a bass or a guitar amp?