Volume/Gain/Input Question...

[borton6544]

Hi TB'ers. Could use some help with a couple questions I almost feel dumb for posting, but I think they're reasonable - and I'd really appreciate clarification.

Background: Two active basses played through a Genz Benz ShuttleMax 12.0 and Epifani cabs. Pedal board has the following effects: I plug into a Visual Sound volume pedal, which goes into a Prunes n Custard (synthy fuzz), then into an MXR Envelope Filter, then into an Empress Compressor, with my last effect a Tech 21 Bass Chorus.

ShuttleMax has gain and channel volume, and a master volume (main output). Empress Compressor has input and output knobs both. Visual Sound volume pedal, obviously, has adjustability... and then there's volume knobs on each bass. In other words, there are several different sources of individual volume, gain, and input levels...

Problem: I noticed that when I had my visual volume pedal at anything less than 60%, my compressor LED readout was showing that it wasn't getting enough signal input to compress much -- which I wasn't expecting (right or wrong of me). I was thinking the overall output/volume levels would be altered by the volume pedal, but that the input levels would still be the same and thus the compression and resulting tones the same at different volume levels (using the volume pedal to adjust my volume only). Wrong: makes sense to me now (duh), but the volume pedal affects signal strength going into the other pedals (because it's first in the chain), and thus it affects tone when I play at anything less than 60%. This got me playing with various volume/gain/input settings everywhere else (head, compressor, bass) in order to attempt to get the same tone I want at lower output volumes using the volume pedal - and I was unsuccessful.

*** Why do I have the volume pedal in the first place? I thought it would be the easiest way to adjust volume on the fly, when needed. Why do I have it first in the chain? Many posts say that the volume pedal should be first.

Question 1: Given the above, would I be better off putting my volume pedal AFTER the other effects - given that it alters input levels and thus changes overall tone at low to mid volume? I want it to adjust volume, not tone.

Question 2: On the Empress Compressor only, and given my overall setup, what should I aim for - settings-wise - on the input and output knobs? Should I set them both at noon, and build ShuttleMax settings around the compressor, or start with the volume/gain/output levels on the ShuttleMax first, and then go to the compressor input/ouput? I'm not sure which volumes/gain/inputs should be played with vs. left alone when it comes to lowering volume output... but not tone.

Thanks!

[mattbass6945]

as the signal passes through the volume pedal, it is reduced (manually), so into the next pedal, your input gain is reduced and your output also. maybe try the compression before the volume?

[fivestringgecko]

First rule of efx: There are no rules.

+1 to mattbass for the compressor first suggestion. Also, if you're looking to always get the same tone and control overall volume, put the volume pedal last. That way you can dial in the exact tone you want with all your other pedals, and then everything goes through the volume pedal last.

What works for someone else might not work for you, and vice versa. Also, what you try once with one fuzz pedal (for example) may not work with a different fuzz pedal. Every time I get a new pedal, I give it a run and see where it works best in the signal chain.

Effects are all about what work for you, not someone else.

I think I'm going to go rewire my pedalboard now. lol

5sg.

[borton6544]

Will try both. Thanks gents.

[ga_edwards]

I agree with putting compressor first and volume pedal last as a way to achieve a consistent signal. AFAIK, the input control on your compressor is akin to a regular threshold, control the volume at which the compressor kicks in. Thus, any volume changes before the compressor will alter how the compressor reacts. Therefore, you need to put your volume pedal after the compressor at least, or last to behave as a 'master volume' that doesn't impact on tone. You might even want to put it in the amp's fx loop to have even less impact, as the amp's preamp and how hard the signal hits it, has an impact on tone too.

Another thing worth considering if your basses are both active is balancing the output volume of both basses to be equal. There is a misconception that the volume of a bass has to be turned up to full to achieve optimum tone. Whilst this may be true in a passive bass, the whole point of active circuitry is that you can reduce the volume of the bass whilst not degrading the tone. So if you set the volume of both basses to be the same, you cans set and forget the settings of your compressor.

If you're not keen on this and prefer having the bass volume cranked (granted, it gives you a greater dynamic range) you could get something like the radial bassbone to balance the two basses, or even a simple booster or inexpensive eq pedal to balance the volume of one bass to the other.

[ga_edwards]

I meant to add, regarding your second question. Get the settings right on the pedals first and adjust the amp second. IMO the purpose of the amplifier is to amplify, to make your sound audible and louder. The amp controls are there to optimise the signal to sound right in the room your playing in, and in the mix. Also, there will be times in your career that your sound the audience hears may not be coming out of the amp at all, but a DI box, so if you can avoid relying on the amp to generate your sound, you'll be doing yourself a huge favour.

[borton6544]

All of this input has been very helpful.