VT Bass Deluxe questions

[pfschim]

I posted these in the original VTD review thread, but its an old thread that apparently does not get much traffic.

I am new to the VTD as of last weekends gig. Very cool device. After playing with it a bit, and using it on a gig Sat night, I have a few questions for you more experienced VTD users.

The Tech21 manual says you can send effected or uneffected signal out of the XLR/DI. Is there a separate control for this that I am just not seeing, or are they simply referring to the preset being on or off ?

I tried putting the VTD into the front end of the PF500, as well as into the Power Amp in jack (bypassing the preamp).
I did not try it in the FX in/out section of the PF500.
For the Sat gig, I went with the normal 1/4" out into the front end of the PF500 because then I get to use the PF500 compressor (which is a pretty nice compressor and I like a touch of that in my final tone). I know other TB'ers prefer the power amp in method and I'm curious as to why.

My immediate view is this is a great device and I am now going to set it up for my 2 typical gig basses (fretted 4 and Turner fretless 4). Also eagerly awaiting the chance to use it as a DI in the FOH next weekend, and to tame the issues I have had with various backline setups in the past.

thanks

[Downunderwonder]

If you put the blend at nil you get no effect.

Power amp in is simply a preference for eliminating the amp's preamp.

Compression may be validly applied before the effect loop or after it. If yours is before you're tied to going through the preamp input if you want the compressor.

Having the two inputs is a godsend, three patches each, swap at leisure.

[alec]

Originally Posted by pfschim

The Tech21 manual says you can send effected or uneffected signal out of the XLR/DI. Is there a separate control for this that I am just not seeing, or are they simply referring to the preset being on or off ?

It's just whether you have a preset engaged or not.
The parallel out is always uneffected.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by pfschim

The Tech21 manual says you can send effected or uneffected signal out of the XLR/DI. Is there a separate control for this that I am just not seeing, or are they simply referring to the preset being on or off ?

Preset being on or off.

I tried putting the VTD into the front end of the PF500, as well as into the Power Amp in jack (bypassing the preamp).
I did not try it in the FX in/out section of the PF500.
For the Sat gig, I went with the normal 1/4" out into the front end of the PF500 because then I get to use the PF500 compressor (which is a pretty nice compressor and I like a touch of that in my final tone). I know other TB'ers prefer the power amp in method and I'm curious as to why.

Me too. I don't get using the loop at all. I think any effect sounds better in front, even those designed to work in the loop.

My immediate view is this is a great device and I am now going to set it up for my 2 typical gig basses (fretted 4 and Turner fretless 4). Also eagerly awaiting the chance to use it as a DI in the FOH next weekend, and to tame the issues I have had with various backline setups in the past.

thanks

Great pedal. Won't replace my tube amps, but does have a lot of the vibe of the Ampeg stuff. Makes a nifty dirt box, too.

BTW, Wonder, the VT Deluxe doesn't have a blend knob. Only the upcoming VT Bass DI has a blend.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

BTW, Wonder, the VT Deluxe doesn't have a blend knob. Only the upcoming VT Bass DI has a blend.

They are quite stingy with the perfect pedal aren't they! I got the BDDI Deluxe, my bad for assuming they put blend on the VT version too.

[pfschim]

as always, thanks for the replies and clarifications.

Any of you using the VTD into the front end of an amp, as well as a DI out to FOH ?

Do you find that there are any issues to watch out for when using the VTD as a DI ? When the effect is engaged, it seems as if it will send a pretty "big" signal to the board compared to a std passive DI, or even something like a Countryman. i.e. its definitely not a thru device that just sends your bass signal to the FOH, its got a LOT of color, good color, for sure, but very colored.

any thoughts or experiences to share on this question ?

[JimmyM]

Just make sure your clean sounds are unity gain with it off, and make sure your dirty sounds have enough level to not lose the bass out of the mix but not so much where you blast folks. PA's are glorified amps, after all

[tech21nyc]

Me too. I don't get using the loop at all. I think any effect sounds better in front, even those designed to work in the loop.

There are a couple of reasons for the efx loop. It allows you to engage a specific preset and effect simultaneously. The other reason is that if you run say a Boss chorus (or similar) behind the pedal you no longer have an xlr output to run to the board. By having the effect in the VT's loop you can send the same effect to the board and amp. If you like the sound of the effect before the pedal that's fine.

BTW, Wonder, the VT Deluxe doesn't have a blend knob. Only the upcoming VT Bass DI has a blend.

The VT Bass was not originally designed with the blend function. Because we had requests to make the VT Bass a DI it was easy enough to include the blend function. On the VT Bass Deluxe we are limited by the form factor. We can't add any more digi-pots to the circuit.

If going to the board, it's easy enough to use the parallel out and send it to another channel to accomplish the same thing. Into the amp it's another story. Mixing in your "direct" sound into an actual bass amp is not really the same as mixing in your direct sound at the board. That is really running two amp sounds in parallel.

[pfschim]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Just make sure your clean sounds are unity gain with it off, and make sure your dirty sounds have enough level to not lose the bass out of the mix but not so much where you blast folks. PA's are glorified amps, after all

I get the unity gain idea. But even at unity gain (or as close as you can get it) the VTD does put a much "bigger" signal out .. at least through the 1/4" out. I don't always get much soundcheck time (darn drummers), so I want to be as clear as possible before I use the VTD as my DI and "ampeg" processor in front of the venue provided amps.

Doing 2 fly dates this weekend with pro FOH and decent backline provided (ref my SVT 4Pro vs 6Pro thread). Taking the VTD with me, I'll check back in with my results next week.

thanks

[tech21nyc]

The VT Bass is designed to get you the sound of an emulated vintage amp. In that respect it is very different from a traditional DI if you are expecting that sound. If you just want the sound of your bass leave the unit in bypass mode.

For a better starting point here are some settings to get you a flat response with the unit engaged.

On the VT Bass pedal with the speaker sim engaged flat response will be:

Low 1:30
Mid 1:30
High 9:30-10

The Level control has no effect on the EQ. High levels of the Drive control will increase upper harmonics.

Flat response with the speaker sim disengaged:

Low 1
Mid 12:30
High 11:30

When patching into a snake on the stage it's up to the sound man/woman to properly set the gain structure at the board. If your signal is too hot via the XLR you can engage the pad or adjust the level.

Unfortunately not all sound men/woman properly set the input trims at the board.

[pfschim]

Originally Posted by tech21nyc

The VT Bass is designed to get you the sound of an emulated vintage amp. In that respect it is very different from a traditional DI if you are expecting that sound. If you just want the sound of your bass leave the unit in bypass mode.

For a better starting point here are some settings to get you a flat response with the unit engaged.

On the VT Bass pedal with the speaker sim engaged flat response will be:

Low 1:30
Mid 1:30
High 9:30-10

The Level control has no effect on the EQ. High levels of the Drive control will increase upper harmonics.

Flat response with the speaker sim disengaged:

Low 1
Mid 12:30
High 11:30

When patching into a snake on the stage it's up to the sound man/woman to properly set the gain structure at the board. If your signal is too hot via the XLR you can engage the pad or adjust the level.

Unfortunately not all sound men/woman properly set the input trims at the board.

Thanks tech21nyc. I am using the VT Deluxe, so I do not have the speaker sim the std VT box offers (not sure why it does not, but that's another question entirely). I'm guessing the flat signal settings are the same between the VT and the VT Deluxe (using the ones you gave for speaker sim disengaged), so I will check those out.

I am NOT wanting/needing to send my clean bass signal to the FOH on these upcoming dates, I want the effected signal to go to both the backline - AND - FOH. Any technical reason not to do this ?

[Downunderwonder]

Shooting from the hip, I think the speaker sim is part of the character knob or at least hardwired. The newer VT can turn off the sim but older ones and deluxe cannot. Could be wrong.

[Downunderwonder]

Solution to the unity gain is to always have it on and make use of the six presets with more or less the same total gain. This is what I do with my BDDI deluxe.

[pfschim]

so, post gig report.

4 gigs from Thur to Sat. 4 different backlines, and varying degrees of FOH quality and size.

Set up 3 presets for 1 bass (fly date, going light).
SVT, B15, Dirty SVT - got decent unity gain set up on the presets.
iStomp Blue Pearl phaser in the FX loop (used sparingly)

This thing just kicked butt all weekend. Did exactly what I hoped it would. Sweetened up the nice backlines (SVT 6PRo, Mesa M6) and made the iffy backlines (Hartke of some kind and an SWR rig) sound very decent. FWIW, it also added a very nice vibe to my PF500 and Mesa Walkabout rigs too (not that they don't sound good by themselves already). The VTD really gives me confidence about what my bass tone will be each time I plug in to a different rig.

Pro sound guys on the bigger systems really liked it too.

I'm sold. great box

[tech21nyc]

I am NOT wanting/needing to send my clean bass signal to the FOH on these upcoming dates, I want the effected signal to go to both the backline - AND - FOH. Any technical reason not to do this ?

There is no technical reason not to, although if you tweak a preset so it sounds good with your on stage rig it may not correspond exactly to FOH. Unless your playing a coliseum, your sound in the room is a combination of your stage sound and what's coming out of the PA.

Shooting from the hip, I think the speaker sim is part of the character knob or at least hardwired. The newer VT can turn off the sim but older ones and deluxe cannot. Could be wrong.

The speaker sim is not part of the Character control, it's a separate part of the circuit. We can mod the VT Bass Deluxe for the switch although I don't think anyone has ever sent one in for the mod. Perhaps in the future it will be offered. The thing with the VTBD is that if you are using that pedal (with its 6 presets) it will probably be your main preamp. The speaker sim defeat is more handy if you want to use the VT Bass as more of an on/off stomp box distortion unit.

[One Drop]

Originally Posted by pfschim

so, post gig report.

4 gigs from Thur to Sat. 4 different backlines, and varying degrees of FOH quality and size.

Set up 3 presets for 1 bass (fly date, going light).
SVT, B15, Dirty SVT - got decent unity gain set up on the presets.
iStomp Blue Pearl phaser in the FX loop (used sparingly)

This thing just kicked butt all weekend. Did exactly what I hoped it would. Sweetened up the nice backlines (SVT 6PRo, Mesa M6) and made the iffy backlines (Hartke of some kind and an SWR rig) sound very decent. FWIW, it also added a very nice vibe to my PF500 and Mesa Walkabout rigs too (not that they don't sound good by themselves already). The VTD really gives me confidence about what my bass tone will be each time I plug in to a different rig.

Pro sound guys on the bigger systems really liked it too.

I'm sold. great box

It was the best thing I ever did for my FOH sound. We typically play through PAs of varying quality, and usually run sound ourselves, through boards with limited EQ capabilities. I turn up, plug in, and maybe tweak a few settings to suit the PA and I'm done, and my tone is consistent and exactly where I want it. Truly wonderful and practical piece of kit!

I use it before my SVT as well, takes nothing away and allows me to use it in smaller rooms and still get my sounds.