What components emulate/simulate a tubes character sound/feel the closest?

[mastershake]

Fist off let me just start by saying I know the sound of tubes varies with different amps ect.. with that said, what im about to say is me just speaking generally.
what sounds the most tubish-germanium, LED's, jfet, mosfet, 1nXXXs, other? what clips the softest? whats your experience?
I tried searching but couldn't find anything definitive.
if possible can you cite a website for info? thanks

[Eric Scholz]

I don't mean this in an elitist way, but nothing. Tubes sound like tubes, solid state sounds like solid state, and all those other things sound like what they are. I'm not saying tubes are superior, but if you want the tube sound/feel you have to get tubes. Tubes respond to your dynamics in a way that nothing else really does.

I'm not sure if this applies to you, but if you're looking for a tube feeling amp, without the tube price tag find something used that has preamp tubes but a solid state power section.

Sorry I can't cite my sources... This is all from my own experience

[CopperheadLXXIX]

I hear that some mosfet designs can sound *somewhat* "tubey". I have a [SFX] Red Dragon pre that when driven gives a very nice, warm saturation/soft clipping and I'm pretty sure it is a mosfet circuit. Basically if by tube sound you mean a light overdrive that is rich in harmonics, there are actually quite a few options out there.

[mastershake]

Originally Posted by Eric Scholz

I don't mean this in an elitist way, but nothing. Tubes sound like tubes, solid state sounds like solid state, and all those other things sound like what they are. I'm not saying tubes are superior, but if you want the tube sound/feel you have to get tubes. Tubes respond to your dynamics in a way that nothing else really does.

I'm not sure if this applies to you, but if you're looking for a tube feeling amp, without the tube price tag find something used that has preamp tubes but a solid state power section.

Sorry I can't cite my sources... This is all from my own experience

That's what I figured but Iv been told here on TB "A tube in a pedal is no guarantee that a pedal will sound like an overdriven tube amp. AND no tube in a pedal does not guarantee it won't sound like a tube amp."

[rcubed]

Something with germanium BJTs or FETs are your best options.

[Darkglass]

In my experience it depends:
Usually JFETs resemble pretty well the response of triodes.
But for Power tubes (specially Pentodes) CMOS inverters are the way.

I've experimented with basically every way known to man of clipping a signal, and CMOS really surprised me!

That being said, I think that the impact of a certain technology or topology is often quite overrated when trying to achieve a certain sound.

In my opinion is the total combination what makes the difference! Actually, very often, are the more "overlooked factors", such as gain structuring, filtering between stages, even tone and EQ controls the ones that will probably have a greater influence the final sound, than just the technology itself... of course there's a lot of subjectivity, and grey areas when designing audio, so you don't really have to take my opinion all the way .

But I still think given that the combination what's key... probably the most influential component to creating or emulating a great sound, is the engineer .

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by Darkglass

In my experience it depends:
Usually JFETs resemble pretty well the response of triodes.
But for Power tubes (specially Pentodes) CMOS inverters are the way.

I've experimented with basically every way known to man of clipping a signal, and CMOS really surprised me!

That being said, I think that the impact of a certain technology or topology is often quite overrated when trying to achieve a certain sound.

In my opinion is the total combination what makes the difference! Actually, very often, are the more "overlooked factors", such as gain structuring, filtering between stages, even tone and EQ controls the ones that will probably have a greater influence the final sound, than just the technology itself... of course there's a lot of subjectivity, and grey areas when designing audio, so you don't really have to take my opinion all the way .

But I still think given that the combination what's key... probably the most influential component to creating or emulating a great sound, is the engineer .

I approve of this post.

Just to add to the list,....I've been told here on TB that LED clipping can resemble tube OD as well.

[mastershake]

Im in agreeance that circuit design probably (or does) more likely contributes to the sound more, but part of the reason im asking is that I might want modify a pedal I buy, but don't know what components to use in it.

[Darkglass]

Cool, what pedal is it? And what you'd like to change? Maybe I can help .
I think is way more effective, and easier to tweak the existing circuit to do a certain thing than adding stages of different topology...

[mastershake]

mxr distortion plus or dod 250
I just want optimize the pedal for electric bass and put a switch that lets me change from symmetrical to asymmetrical clipping.

[mastershake]

does the volts or voltage of components determine how they clip?

[Darkglass]

Cool! I think that one has Ge diodes... Here's a list of things you might want to do, and a brief tip of how I'd do it (Let's use the Tonepad schematic for better reference):

1- Switching to LEDs, or Silicon will give you a more crunchy sound (ALA Marshall) and brightness, besides a level boost!
2- If you like the different clipping feel and texture, but is too dark or too bright, try by changing the feedback capacitor (C5). More capacitance will cut treble, less, will do the opposite.
3- For More bass increse C2 (the value in the Dist+ is 10nF, you can wire a switch in parallel to increase the capacitance). But since you're increasing the amount of low end (well, decreasing the cut of it really) pre clipping, it'll probably get fuzzier.
4- A good way to solve the issue stated in point 3, is to replace C4 for a smaller value. This will do two things:
a) Will cut more low end when gain is cranked.
b) The frequency response should stay fairly similar when Gain is dimmed.
This will allow you to have fatter cleaner sounds, and more clarity when cranked.
Since heavy distortion will generate harmonics, the sound will probably "feel" thicker with higher gain settings, the problem is to usually get bassy enough sounds with lower gain settings.

Well, I haven't messed with this circuit in years, and when I did, I had no idea of how to do any of the things I just suggested hehe. So have fun, and experiment with it!

If you need any more help, just let me know .

Regards!

Doug.

[mastershake]

Originally Posted by Darkglass

Cool! I think that one has Ge diodes... Here's a list of things you might want to do, and a brief tip of how I'd do it (Let's use the Tonepad schematic for better reference):

1- Switching to LEDs, or Silicon will give you a more crunchy sound (ALA Marshall) and brightness, besides a level boost!
2- If you like the different clipping feel and texture, but is too dark or too bright, try by changing the feedback capacitor (C5). More capacitance will cut treble, less, will do the opposite.
3- For More bass increse C2 (the value in the Dist+ is 10nF, you can wire a switch in parallel to increase the capacitance). But since you're increasing the amount of low end (well, decreasing the cut of it really) pre clipping, it'll probably get fuzzier.
4- A good way to solve the issue stated in point 3, is to replace C4 for a smaller value. This will do two things:
a) Will cut more low end when gain is cranked.
b) The frequency response should stay fairly similar when Gain is dimmed.
This will allow you to have fatter cleaner sounds, and more clarity when cranked.
Since heavy distortion will generate harmonics, the sound will probably "feel" thicker with higher gain settings, the problem is to usually get bassy enough sounds with lower gain settings.

Well, I haven't messed with this circuit in years, and when I did, I had no idea of how to do any of the things I just suggested hehe. So have fun, and experiment with it!

If you need any more help, just let me know .

Regards!

Doug.

Thanks, Im fairly new to this and it will probably be a while before I give this a try, at least until I can get some extra cash flow to help fund this little project, but I appreciate the help/info.

[Darkglass]

You're most welcome

[mastershake]

Originally Posted by Darkglass

Cool! I think that one has Ge diodes... Here's a list of things you might want to do, and a brief tip of how I'd do it (Let's use the Tonepad schematic for better reference):

1- Switching to LEDs, or Silicon will give you a more crunchy sound (ALA Marshall) and brightness, besides a level boost!
2- If you like the different clipping feel and texture, but is too dark or too bright, try by changing the feedback capacitor (C5). More capacitance will cut treble, less, will do the opposite.
3- For More bass increse C2 (the value in the Dist+ is 10nF, you can wire a switch in parallel to increase the capacitance). But since you're increasing the amount of low end (well, decreasing the cut of it really) pre clipping, it'll probably get fuzzier.
4- A good way to solve the issue stated in point 3, is to replace C4 for a smaller value. This will do two things:
a) Will cut more low end when gain is cranked.
b) The frequency response should stay fairly similar when Gain is dimmed.
This will allow you to have fatter cleaner sounds, and more clarity when cranked.
Since heavy distortion will generate harmonics, the sound will probably "feel" thicker with higher gain settings, the problem is to usually get bassy enough sounds with lower gain settings.

Well, I haven't messed with this circuit in years, and when I did, I had no idea of how to do any of the things I just suggested hehe. So have fun, and experiment with it!

If you need any more help, just let me know .

Regards!

Doug.

would some sort of post clipping bass boost on the pedal be an effective solution? or a post clipping feedback capacitors that cut highs and mids? Im not sure if what im saying is accurate and dont know if this would alter the physical design of circuit significantly .

[Darkglass]

Originally Posted by mastershake

would some sort of post clipping bass boost on the pedal be an effective solution?

Certainly! A Clean blend would also help!

[mastershake]

Originally Posted by mastershake

does the volts or voltage of components determine how they clip?

Anybody?

[rcubed]

Originally Posted by mastershake

Anybody?

Short answer is yes.

[mastershake]

I found this.

[mastershake]

forgive my ignorance, but do all distortion pedals contain opamps?