What effects box has the best tracking

WarriorJoe7 · #1 05-12-2010, 06:06 PM

I am looking for an effects box (I could care less about the sounds it produces) but one that has the quickest and most accurate tracking. This is for another project I am working on, which is why I am only interested in the bass tracking.

I will start with what I have heard about the electro harmonix poly octave generator POG. I have heard great things about the tracking speed and accuracy. is there a better pedal for tracking bass notes?

edit: the pog might not be a good example. be sure to read the comments on the first page to see why.

Oh yeah I must mention that I am looking for boxes that accept only regular 1/4 inch inputs (so the v bass or similiar items do not count.)

Bassmike62 · #2 05-12-2010, 06:24 PM

Don't know if it's your thing, but I have a Digitech Bass Wah that tracks better than the MXR Bass Octave Deluxe. Pretty wild filter too.

bongomania · #3 05-12-2010, 06:25 PM

Just to clear up the wording, the only effects that have anything to do with tracking at all are octavers and other pitch shifters/followers.

takfar · #4 05-12-2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

Just to clear up the wording, the only effects that have anything to do with tracking at all are octavers and other pitch shifters/followers.

Well, you *could* say envelope-controlled effects (envelope filters, slow gear clones) do have to "track" the playing, in a way. Gated effects (fuzzes or noise gates) also have to determine whether the signal they're hearing is supposed to be killed (noise or residual decay) or not (a desired note)

That said, yea, tracking problems are most usually associated with pitch-detecting octavers, harmonizers and synth pedals.

On the OP: The EHX POG family "tracks" flawlessly, but that's because they aren't really interpreting the signal, but rather resampling it, afaik.

Bassmike62 · #5 05-12-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

Just to clear up the wording, the only effects that have anything to do with tracking at all are octavers and other pitch shifters/followers.

Yup, wouldn't dare disagree on that. But there a few settings that actually make the BSW sound more like an octaver than a filter (although very synthy, of course), like the type 2-every-knob-at-0 setting.

nad · #6 05-12-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorJoe7

I am looking for an effects box (I could care less about the sounds it produces) but one that has the quickest and most accurate tracking.

Subdecay Noise Box. You don't even have to play and it will track notes, that's how accurate it is.

WarriorJoe7 · #7 05-12-2010, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takfar

Well, you *could* say envelope-controlled effects (envelope filters, slow gear clones) do have to "track" the playing, in a way. Gated effects (fuzzes or noise gates) also have to determine whether the signal they're hearing is supposed to be killed (noise or residual decay) or not (a desired note)

That said, yea, tracking problems are most usually associated with pitch-detecting octavers, harmonizers and synth pedals.

On the OP: The EHX POG family "tracks" flawlessly, but that's because they aren't really interpreting the signal, but rather resampling it, afaik.

I didn't actually know that it is only resampled. It won't work for my project then. In your words, I guess I am asking what is the best unit that interprets a bass signal? (And once again I could care less as to what sound producer it is hooked up to. i am am interested in isolating the tracking... so who has the best interpreting tracking technology?)

takfar · #8 05-12-2010, 08:07 PM

Regarding the POG, I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere that it resamples the signal. I don't know it firsthand, tho, but it makes sense. It can pitch-shift *anything* (guitar, bass, voice, any noise) without error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorJoe7

I didn't actually know that it is only resampled. It won't work for my project then. In your words, I guess I am asking what is the best unit that interprets a bass signal? (And once again I could care less as to what sound producer it is hooked up to. i am am interested in isolating the tracking... so who has the best interpreting tracking technology?)

If you're really only interested in note detection and don't care about the sound it makes, you might want to have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bY9H7ec6_0
The turbo tuner can catch notes pretty fast.

Taylor Livingston · #9 05-12-2010, 08:49 PM

Joe, perhaps you could get better responses if you explain what you're after in a little more depth. What exactly are you doing with this? Are you building your own effect, or...?

Happynoj · #10 05-12-2010, 08:52 PM

The octave setting on the Digitech Bass Synth Wah is damn good.

groooooove · #11 05-12-2010, 09:16 PM

korg G5 tracks litterally flawlessly.

+1 to only octave/pitchshifters (and synths) being the only things tracking. envelope filters/gated fuzzes dont really "track," theyre just sort of affected by differnt aspects of the signal. filters opening/closing depending on the volume going into it isint exactly tracking, its just, being altered. tracking is when it needs to "find" the note your playing and reproduce it (in its effected way, of course.)

JimmyM · #12 05-12-2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conical johnson

Joe, perhaps you could get better responses if you explain what you're after in a little more depth. What exactly are you doing with this? Are you building your own effect, or...?

what a strange thread.

Taylor Livingston · #13 05-12-2010, 10:17 PM

Care to elaborate?

Is my post really the strangest thing here?

bongomania · #14 05-12-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takfar

Well, you *could* say envelope-controlled effects (envelope filters, slow gear clones) do have to "track" the playing, in a way. Gated effects (fuzzes or noise gates) also have to determine whether the signal they're hearing is supposed to be killed (noise or residual decay) or not (a desired note)

That said, yea, tracking problems are most usually associated with pitch-detecting octavers, harmonizers and synth pedals.

On the OP: The EHX POG family "tracks" flawlessly, but that's because they aren't really interpreting the signal, but rather resampling it, afaik.

Ehhhh... While it's true that both pitch and amplitude are targets for tracking, analog amplitude detection (and nearly instant reaction) was perfected about 70 years ago, while digital pitch and amplitude detection is still in the growing-pains stage, with a lot widely-available gear not being all that great at it. So tracking is a non-issue if you just look at analog amplitude following. But even then, the pitch tracking can be hinky, depending on the system in use.

Re: "interpreting" vs. resampling, I'm not sure what the difference would be in the tracking. In all digital cases, there must be an A/D converter, a brain that reads the incoming data and sends out appropriate commands to the tone generator (whether sampled or not), and a D/A converter. So tracking depends entirely on the speed and robustness of the computer used, completely irrespective of the program it's running.

To Joe, can you tell us more about what you are trying to achieve? Is it just that you want a kool sound and you don't want any lag time or note glitches? Because there are hundreds of pedals that will do that for you, with no tracking issues at all, because tracking is not part of how they work. So let us know what you are trying to do--it might be way easier than you think.

JimmyM · #15 05-12-2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conical johnson

Care to elaborate?

Is my post really the strangest thing here?

not at all. the question's a little off the wall, though.

chuck3 · #16 05-12-2010, 10:37 PM

no disagreement so far, including that the question is not 100% clear. But for what it's worth, I use a POG2 as part of my pedalboard (to create an organ sound, usually when the guitar plays a lead), and it tracks very well.

But I don't think tracking is usually the #1 issue with a pedal, assuming you're getting a decent one.

megadan · #17 05-12-2010, 10:41 PM

This thread is making my head hurt.

Regarding the POG: I don't think "resampling" is an accurate term to use. From my first hand experiance, the Pog is a digital box that detects, like a digital tuner, the note yu are playing, and generates a pitch one octave below it matching the envelope of the input. Point in fact is that it would not repitch anything: it didn't take to my drum machine at all, since it was looking for a pitch. If it truly resampled it would have spit out, for example, the kick drum sound an octave lower. It doesn't work like that.

The only true resample/pitch shift I have used perfectly is an old digital delay rack unit: with the hold engadged, you could turn the pitch knob all over the place to change the pitch (and speed obviously) all you wanted, it would always come back to exact pitch at the played delay time. Of course, meaningless for a real time pitch shifter.

Most octavers, analog and digital, are just generating frequencys below based on what you play. Analog octavers glitch because of how they track notes, but some say they produce a fatter tone than the POG.

Regarding the thread: it makes no sense - why would one care about "tracking" and not the actual sounds it produces? What is the goal of tracking your playing? It almost sounds as if you are trying to trigger some other sound or module with your playing, but you're looking for something with 1/4" inputs and not using midi pickups.

WarriorJoe7 · #18 05-12-2010, 10:44 PM

This EXACTLY what I am looking for (Except is it just as fast on the bass notes? I am on the lookout for something that has a barely perceptible delay and this is it but only down to guitar E.)

So who has a turbo tuner on here?

I am still on the lookout for something else just as fast or faster (It's good to have options.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by takfar

Regarding the POG, I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere that it resamples the signal. I don't know it firsthand, tho, but it makes sense. It can pitch-shift *anything* (guitar, bass, voice, any noise) without error.

If you're really only interested in note detection and don't care about the sound it makes, you might want to have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bY9H7ec6_0
The turbo tuner can catch notes pretty fast.

WarriorJoe7 · #19 05-12-2010, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conical johnson

Joe, perhaps you could get better responses if you explain what you're after in a little more depth. What exactly are you doing with this? Are you building your own effect, or...?

It's under wraps (I am sure I will have something to tell you soon though.) I need fast detection and a few different brands so that I have options.

All I can say is that the project could end up being huge.

megadan · #20 05-12-2010, 10:47 PM

I knew this thread wasn't about octavers!

I use a Turbo Tuner and it's the fastest note detection I've seen. Much faster than your standard TU-2 for example. Of course afaik there's no way to get that data in any meaningful way from the pedal. And the signal is muted when you are tuning (display goes dark when bypassed)