what envelope filter, if any, has unity gain?

Jumbotron · #1 07-15-2010, 07:59 AM

So I've been through a number of envelope filters at this point, and while I've found some that sound very good, I need to find one that doesn't add volume when you step on it. I'm not talking about the peaking when the filter opens up--I expect that to happen--but everything getting louder when the pedal is on. I like to have my pedals set up so that I can step on them and ensure a consistent output without messing with the controls on my bass or amp (I like to set it an forget it).

So how about it? Are there some envelope filters out there that either (a) feature a level control, (b) have another control that will handle overall gain and still allow a wet sound, or (c) have a gain structure such that even though there's no control for it, they don't make everything louder when engaged?

TaySte_2000 · #2 07-15-2010, 08:24 AM

Mojo Hand 442 is fairly level when kicked in.

Problem with filters and volume are alot play tricks on your ears.

Not a filter per se but the MXR M-188 Bass Auto Q has a level control.

Hope this helps

d180fuzz · #3 07-15-2010, 08:30 AM

yeah, i was gonna pipe in and mention the bass auto q (volume knob) - but tayste - why do you say it's not a filter per se?

Jimbob Jones · #4 07-15-2010, 08:32 AM

It's an autowah, so it triggers a predefined sweep when you cross the threshhold, rather than responding to your dynamics like a filter does. It's subtly different, but IME just sounds a bit less organic than a true envelope filter.

Clark Dark · #5 07-15-2010, 08:35 AM

my 00Funk works great with regards to unity gain.

**Bryan R. Tyler** · #6 07-15-2010, 08:45 AM

Filters that aren't really resonant or have a volume control are what you're after. The 3Leaf Groove Regulator is one, and I've heard the Discombobulator and Mojo Hand are as well. The upcoming Source Audio bass envelope filter sounds very wet while maintaining unity gain, but that's not out yet.

RCCollins · #7 07-15-2010, 08:53 AM

You need a fairly low-resonance filter (or one that you can set that way), or better yet, you need a limiter. That's really the only way to tame the volume spike of wet filters, because resonance = volume spike at the rolloff frequency

**TheMutt** · #8 07-15-2010, 08:59 AM

I'll +1 the Groove Regulator and the Tone Factor 442 Red / Mojo Hand Boomstick Bottomfeeder. Both do not have problems with unity gain, volume spikes, or dropping out of the mix.

bigchiefbc · #9 07-15-2010, 09:00 AM

+1 to getting a limiter. Then you can just use whatever filter you like best, and not worry about the volume level at all, since it will always be kept at unity.

bongomania · #10 07-15-2010, 09:07 AM

Guys, hold up. He very specifically said he wasn't talking about resonant peaks, that he expects those.

That said, the only filter I've ever found to be far from unity gain was the Q-Tron. All the others I've used only had volume peaks during the resonant spikes, not otherwise. So I don't know what to recommend, aside from obviously looking for one with a volume knob. The EMMA and Tone Factor ones are pretty mellow.

Mr-Wunderful · #11 07-15-2010, 09:13 AM

The Ashdown has a gain adjustment however it's not the most versatile envelope filter out there. I do like mine though, gets a really cool 70's porno soundtrack bass sound and the VU meeter looks cool.

RCCollins · #12 07-15-2010, 09:14 AM

EBS BassIQ keeps unity gain well (depending where you set the internal blend trimpot)

Smurf-o-Deth · #13 07-15-2010, 09:14 AM

The MXR M82 has both Dry and Wet level controls.

FromTheBassMent · #14 07-15-2010, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smurf-o-Deth

The MXR M82 has both Dry and Wet level controls.

I was just going to mention that ^^^^

Plus, it sounds wicked good. I love being able to control those two levels independently. The only thing that keeps the M82 from perfection is that you can't change the direction of the sweep (it's up only). But I only use a filter once or twice in an entire gig, so I'm not looking for a lot of variety in settings. I've found a setting I like, and it's at unity on the wet side and just below unity on the dry. I stomp it and get exactly what I want and what I'm expecting every time.

Jumbotron · #15 07-15-2010, 09:38 AM

Thanks for the tips so far, guys.

I tried the MXR Bass Auto Q already, and while it's got the level control, it also wasn't the sound I wanted. I've actually been thinking about an M82 or a BassIQ. Also the QBalls, but I suspect that thing might be exactly wrong for the volume issue (anybody have experience with it on that score?).

For the record, I already use a compressor (multicomp) after the filter (currenty a Robotalk 2)--that's why the spikes don't freak me out.

FilterFunk · #16 07-15-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr-Wunderful

The Ashdown has a gain adjustment however it's not the most versatile envelope filter out there. I do like mine though, gets a really cool 70's porno soundtrack bass sound and the VU meeter looks cool.

I was wondering if I was the only one who likes the Ashdown! The Up/Down sweep and BP/LP controls are knobs instead of switches, so you can get lots of flavors in between. It's fairly versatile in its own way. It needs an attack control, though; that slow attack is very cool for some things, but too darn slow for tight, snappy funk.

d180fuzz · #17 07-15-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbob Jones

It's an autowah, so it triggers a predefined sweep when you cross the threshhold, rather than responding to your dynamics like a filter does. It's subtly different, but IME just sounds a bit less organic than a true envelope filter.

hmm. but it DOES respond to my dynamics like an envelope filter does. the sweep only happens WHEN i cross the threshold.

regarding the sweep, i have control over the RANGE and the Q of the sweep, so how is that pre-defined?

as for the inorganic sound - yeah, sounds like rubbery outer space. i like it.

not trying to start sumpin', just trying to comprehend the difference.

bigchiefbc · #18 07-15-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d180fuzz

hmm. but it DOES respond to my dynamics like an envelope filter does. the sweep only happens WHEN i cross the threshold.

regarding the sweep, i have control over the RANGE and the Q of the sweep, so how is that pre-defined?

as for the inorganic sound - yeah, sounds like rubbery outer space. i like it.

not trying to start sumpin', just trying to comprehend the difference.

I have no idea if this is true about the Auto-Q itself, since I've never played it. But, I think what they're saying that it is not an envelope filter, in that the filter sweep doesn't follow your volume envelope. Rather, one triggered, it sweeps according to how you have the knobs set. Most envelope filters simply follow the attack and decay of the note you played. That is the basic difference between an envelope filter, and an auto-wah, or triggered filter, as it is sometimes called.

bongomania · #19 07-15-2010, 10:36 AM

The MXR Bass Auto Q contains BOTH an envelope filter and an auto-wah. What confuses people is that Dunlop uses the term "auto wah" to mean "envelope filter", and the term "shimmer" to mean what is normally understood as an auto wah.

bongomania · #20 07-15-2010, 10:40 AM

...The difference being that an envelope filter is always something that reacts to your dynamics, whereas the "majority usage" of the term auto-wah means a filter that cycles open and closed repetitively/nonstop, irrespective of your dynamics. But again, some manufacturers (including Boss) have used the word "auto" to mean "envelope following"... so there is a ball of confusion, hey hey.