Whats the point?

oldprussians · #1 05-21-2012, 03:31 AM

What's the point in having anything but a tight sound?

I'll explain...

I DON"T use many effects, but I was a my bi-weekly practice with my band and I had this rig:

Behringer amp - sound great.

Effects loop
Zoom B2 for Auto wah
EBS Octaver - Awesome
Behringer Vintage Bass.

This is my point. The rooms are very good practise rooms, that a well sound proofed, not dead but balanced.

The auto wah sounds good as the Bass is retained and fairly dry. Octaver self explanatory.

The Vintage Bass, on the other hand, sound great in my Room at home at low levels. Great in the practise rooms loud and on it's own. But.... Stick the cymbals in and two guitars that weren't Heavy sounding either, and the great sound was lost in the Mid to high mix.

Yea I added a little octaver underneath, but what I got cutting through was the Octaver, not the Psychedelic sound.

The point is that it is not the pedal at fault, it is the nature of the sound scape.

My conclusion: if its Bass you play keep it bassy!

As a note, if you look at the Pedals that EBS make as a barometer of what actually works, Synth sounds aren't one of them...

Comp
Phaser
Chorus
Reverb
Trem
Octaver
Distortion

Note I'm not saying they are the law of what works, but their bread and butter is Amps and Sound, rather than sound Processing such as Boss, who's job is to sell you a new flavour every month.

Anyway just the rantings of an old fart......

sillyfabe · #2 05-21-2012, 04:07 AM

ohh man this thread is gonna get ripped apart! BUT NOT BY ME!

As someone that uses effects both playing around at home, at practice with the band and at gigs....I love the sound of a nice clean bass. With that said it's based off the situation, song, audience and overall mix of the musicians in a band coming together as one (or sometimes not!). I've learned from personal experince and from here that it's how you EQ, type of effect used and how it fits in hte mix that will make it stand out. I love fuzz but if I scoop my mids then bye-bye presence when my guitarist is wailing away. With that said same fuzz with boosted mids will DEFINITELY get noticed!

also not to be too much of a gear snob but there are WAY better options for an auto-wah and twin envelope filter then what you used.

that octaver is a mighty fine one though!

pantherairsoft · #3 05-21-2012, 04:13 AM

I think what you are actually saying is that a number of effects don't work for YOUR sound within a band mix. That is a fact which many many people would agree with and I know many many bass players who have pedals to play with and record and be creative (so thats the point! - they are still fun), but don't use them live as they can't make them fit within the mix of the band they play in - like yourself.

On the flip side I do not use a clean tone anywhere in an entire set - in fact I don't think I use less than 3 pedals at once anywhere. The less like the bass it sounds the better... but thats my band mix - and for that it's perfect. In fact - I struggle to get a clean bass sound to sit right given how much more presence my synth sounds have!

Horses for courses.

Bassmike62 · #4 05-21-2012, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pantherairsoft

I think what you are actually saying is that a number of effects don't work for YOUR sound within a band mix.

I read it from that angle also. Lord knows it's easy to find effects one likes, but finding effects that keep it bassy (as OP mentionned, which is important to me also) AND cut through, well... that another story. And what sounds great on one bassists rig might not sound all that good on another's rig.

IMO, effects are not a necessity on bass (or guitar, for that matter), but they are a creativity tool and do provide color and identity (would Stranglehold be the same without Rob Grange's phaser ? maybe... maybe not. Not to forget: Cliff Burton, Geezer Butler...). But effects are also fun and for me, they are for the most part used in specific parts of songs instead of an "always on" thing. But that's just me. Tons of bassists used effects on a constant basis, with spectacular results.

My only "always on" tone-effecting pedal is the PBDDI. Wouldn't have it any other way. I have a small selection of effects which I really like (pending judgement on the Blowtorch next week-end). But I would never play without having a few effects near... just for fun.

M Sterling · #5 05-21-2012, 06:32 AM

Learning how to properly eq your effected tone can do wonders for how much your sound is heard in the full band mix. Especially true with fuzz (as sillyfabe pointed out).

BTW the title of this thread sounds kinda troll-ish. It goes without saying that, if you are in this section of the forum, there definitely "is" a point.

Oreomeister365 · #6 05-21-2012, 06:37 AM

It is pretty ignorant to think that this "basic" or "bassy" sound that a bass starts off as makes the song better than any other of infinite sounds.

oldprussians · #7 05-21-2012, 07:18 AM

Guys the point I was making is that I love different sounds.

But I find that I'm having give up on that "Solidity" for want of a better word....

As to the trolling question........ It grabs attention and expresses my frustration with the fact I love a particular sound but when it actually comes down to it it seems impractical...

I mean for that particular pedal I had one of the guitarist actually say we'll have to find an intro for you to use it.... And he wasn't extracting the Michael......

My point is if I'm now trying to find a piece of music to justify the equipment, I feel its all Bottom about Breast! I mean the equipment is there to enhance the music right, not the other way round?

Or maybe its something I don't get...

Bassmike62 · #8 05-21-2012, 07:24 AM

Well then, effects are probably not for you. IMO, using effects or not doesn't make someone a better or worse player. It's a matter of personal choice.

Kenthor · #9 05-21-2012, 07:43 AM

Never used an effect live in my life .... just a thought

DeltaPhoenix · #10 05-21-2012, 07:46 AM

good for you

MSUsousaphone · #11 05-21-2012, 07:56 AM

These threads are all pretty much the same......"my pedalsz sounds is not as good as my cleans one"......."here'z what I'm alls usings....Behringer, EBS, EHX"....."FX brings my tones to nots goods enoughs."

Wow. You found the cheapest pedals and your complaining your sound is't great with them.

I'm sure the amp section gets a lot of "hey guys, I just got this amp from walmart and it doesn't sounds great in a mix", too, thoug.

SMH.

Hey everyone. I ate at this chinese place in the airport. Anyways, I didn't really dig it at all. So my conclusion is "keep it non chinese food".

Bassmike62 · #12 05-21-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSUsousaphone

Hey everyone. I ate at this chinese place in the airport. Anyways, I didn't really dig it at all. So my conclusion is "keep it non chinese food".

I actually laughed out loud at that one ! And good point as well.

pantherairsoft · #13 05-21-2012, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldprussians

I mean for that particular pedal I had one of the guitarist actually say we'll have to find an intro for you to use it.... And he wasn't extracting the Michael......

This sounds more like your guitarists impression of the sounds and place within the mix than your own. Many musicians have a 'traditional' bass should be bass approach, but need to open their eyes (ears...) to much of (but not all of!) modern musical styles...

Your posts imply that you like the sounds, but can't get your band mates to think they are right for the music. Sounds as though it could be the old case of the guitarist not wanting to be over shadowed!

Shep

Jim Nazium · #14 05-21-2012, 08:14 AM

/gets popcorn, sits down to watch

RFord04 · #15 05-21-2012, 08:16 AM

Yeah, you might want to get your hands on a few decent pedals before making up your mind, because Behringer and Zoom make some real turds.

Also, you mention that EBS doesn't make a synth pedal, which is correct, but you left the BassIQ off that list, which is an envelope filter... Put the IQ with the octave and a decent fuzz and you'll have a pretty good synth sound. I used to do that all the time until I sold my EBS stuff.

Your assessment is a little premature, I'd say. Try some better stuff.

Bassmike62 · #16 05-21-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

/gets popcorn, sits down to watch

Lol.

The thread should probably be closed... there's no point and no resolve to this (eternal) debate. This being said with all due respect.

MSUsousaphone · #17 05-21-2012, 08:41 AM

Well the dude's obviously a troll. If he was really looking for an answer, he wouldn't title the thread "what's the point". Probably some old dude ticked off no one wants to see him play old jazz standards.

oldprussians · #18 05-21-2012, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSUsousaphone

Well the dude's obviously a troll. If he was really looking for an answer, he wouldn't title the thread "what's the point". Probably some old dude ticked off no one wants to see him play old jazz standards.

You may not care but you made me cry.....

I'm sensitive in that way....

I'm not a troll. Weren't any of you in the Debating societies at School or University?

And apologies for offending anyone..

SoVeryTired · #19 05-21-2012, 09:05 AM

But posting about not seeing the point of effects in the effects forum is a bit like going onto the Double Bass section and asking them why they don't just get a proper Precision...

oldprussians · #20 05-21-2012, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFord04

Yeah, you might want to get your hands on a few decent pedals before making up your mind, because Behringer and Zoom make some real turds.

Also, you mention that EBS doesn't make a synth pedal, which is correct, but you left the BassIQ off that list, which is an envelope filter... Put the IQ with the octave and a decent fuzz and you'll have a pretty good synth sound. I used to do that all the time until I sold my EBS stuff.

Your assessment is a little premature, I'd say. Try some better stuff.

Yes I forgot the IQ.. Great pedal!

1 the Zoom auto-wah is actually very good. and the Phaser is not to bad.
2 I know the VB1 was probably going to pants but a took a chance on it since it was that cheap, (yes I know pay peanuts get monkeys), and in some way its a nice sound but as I said not practical
3 The Amp I actually can't fault it, although in the future I probably/maybe avoid aluminium cones. Bare in mind the Price sound ratio is very good.

And Yes if I go for a synth pedal ever again, I'll probably go for the Mark Bass..... But I swore to myself I'd never get Gas..... other than when eating too many raw onions...