Why aren't there synth clones?

[enjoi1018]

As forum etiquette dictates, I searched more than once to no avail....

Now the real issue. Straight and simple. If there are companies such as 3Leaf that have turned the effects world over by cloning the Mutron III and Meatball, why isn't someone burying pallets of cash behind their house cloning the Deep Impact? Or the Korg G5? Is it that hard, or impossible, or what? Is it a digital thing?

Fire away!

[groooooove]

its partly that its a digital pedal that makes it so hard to even think about cloning. its also just not worth the effort it'll take. not enough people would buy them, is the simple answer.

[Jazz Ad]

Even Akai isn't able to make the Deep Impact, some components aren't available anymore.

[chokeslam512]

Well Behringer cloned the boss synth pedal... quite well actually.

[bassbrad]

Originally Posted by chokeslam512

Well Behringer cloned the boss synth pedal... quite well actually.

Well, The tech level of Boss synth pedals and the Akai Deep Impact do not even begin to compare.

Akai and Yamaha are notorious for creating limited run technology that has staggering potential but never completely catches on until they move on. They can or will no longer recreate crucial unique components because the economy was never there to begin with or the parts become unobtainium.

[bigchiefbc]

The main reason why it is hard to clone most synth pedals is precisely because it is digital. You could copy the pedal component for component, but the problem is that digital pedals have a programmable chip that has source code on it. You cannot clone that any more than you can clone the source code of any other program. The synth pedals that are fully analog, a la the EHX BMS or even the Moog Freqbox are definitely cloneable, but probably not at a price that will be competitive with the real thing.

[behndy]

hurm. FIRST i wanted to say thanks for asking an original question. i never really thought about that.

i hold out hope that builders that just wreck minds with what they put out and have delved into some of the digital aspects of pedals like Iron Ether go that route. 'cause it always feels like smaller builders take something the big boys did, look at what was right and what was wrong, and put a delicious little spin on it.

[enjoi1018]

Yeah I totally see now. I just thought (esp. with the economy) that someone would be doing it. In today's day and age, you'd think that with components missing you'd HAVE to figure out the source codes mentioned above. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a MASSIVE amount of sound engineering possible these days? Why can't some guy sit behind a desk for 1000 hours and clone the exact sound through an amp (given no other x-facters i.e. cables, bass, etc.) of a SB-1 and put an IN and OUT jack on the sucker. Just askin'.... I can see where the "not financially worth it" might come into play now.

Good responses.

[chokeslam512]

A boutique copy of an already expensive pedal is bad for my wallet.

[bigchiefbc]

Originally Posted by enjoi1018

Yeah I totally see now. I just thought (esp. with the economy) that someone would be doing it. In today's day and age, you'd think that with components missing you'd HAVE to figure out the source codes mentioned above. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a MASSIVE amount of sound engineering possible these days? Why can't some guy sit behind a desk for 1000 hours and clone the exact sound through an amp (given no other x-facters i.e. cables, bass, etc.) of a SB-1 and put an IN and OUT jack on the sucker. Just askin'.... I can see where the "not financially worth it" might come into play now.

Good responses.

Well, a thousand hours is half a year of full-time man-hours. Who can afford to do that just on R&D, except a large company.

[Funkinthetrunk]

WELL.....I think Source Audio should be informed that we need a synth pedal.

[bigchiefbc]

Originally Posted by Funkinthetrunk

WELL.....I think Source Audio should be informed that we need a synth pedal.

Indeed, or anyone for that matter. As long as it's not just their distortion pedal crammed in with their filter.

[Funkinthetrunk]

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

Indeed, or anyone for that matter. As long as it's not just their distortion pedal crammed in with their filter.

+1!
A true synth pedal...I'd buy one or two.

[enjoi1018]

The Source Audio route had my eyebrows sky high.... A company like SA would definitely have the technology/funding/SUPPORT to get this done, and get it done right.

As BigChief said, a true synth pedal. With 87 presets. And a cool new Source Audio styled pastel color. Or invisible.

I've also heard rumors of a 3Leaf one coming, but that's all I know.

[wolffman]

Originally Posted by Funkinthetrunk

WELL.....I think Source Audio should be informed that we need a synth pedal.

making a true synth pedal was mentioned in the source audio club thread a few months ago- and iirc Roger said they had bought current/discontinued synth pedals and were looking into it. A pedal like this will take time- I'd have to assume over a year or 2 until production. BUT I have more faith in them than almost any other company- when they put something out it is done the right way. SA is the what's up.

[Wud]

Originally Posted by enjoi1018

Yeah I totally see now. I just thought (esp. with the economy) that someone would be doing it. In today's day and age, you'd think that with components missing you'd HAVE to figure out the source codes mentioned above. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a MASSIVE amount of sound engineering possible these days? Why can't some guy sit behind a desk for 1000 hours and clone the exact sound through an amp (given no other x-facters i.e. cables, bass, etc.) of a SB-1 and put an IN and OUT jack on the sucker. Just askin'.... I can see where the "not financially worth it" might come into play now.

Good responses.

You could probably do that with Convolution, if you could be arsed.
It's popular for VST Reverbs, and involves firing an 1 Second "Impulse File" through a rig and recording it.
Remove the Impulse File, and you have the Impulse Response which you'd load into a Convolution plug in.

More detailed info can be seen on the Audio Ease website, this is my favorite Convolution Reverb at the moment -

Altiverb 6 demo page

Convolution can be cool and very convincing, but it is static, like a photograph of the sound as it happened.
Synth sounds by their nature are generally dynamic, so I'm not sure if it could work, and how convincing it would sound.

Bear in mind I'm not a scientist, so salt and pinch please take

[Ramanujan]

I want some kind of a stompbox with a processor where we can upload our own effect algorithms. I have no clue how to build the hardware for such a thing, but i would have real fun implementing sound algorithms

[RickenBoogie]

Personally, having an actual keyboard based synthesizer seems like the better, cheaper option. By the time you get done with an actual synth pedal for bass, you could've bought an analog synthesizer with money left over. Most of what passes as a "synth" pedal these days is an envelope follower, filter, octave, and fuzz, in one box- not ideal, and then there's tracking issues. A DSI MoPho can be had brand new for $799.

[Funkinthetrunk]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Personally, having an actual keyboard based synthesizer seems like the better, cheaper option. By the time you get done with an actual synth pedal for bass, you could've bought an analog synthesizer with money left over. Most of what passes as a "synth" pedal these days is an envelope follower, filter, octave, and fuzz, in one box- not ideal, and then there's tracking issues. A DSI MoPho can be had brand new for $799.

So do you mean MIDI(ize) your bass? How's the tracking with those? I've been wanting to do this.

[PaulNYC]

check out sonuus i2m