Why use this limiter thing anyway?

[GreggBummer]

Equipment: Peavey Tour 450 which has a DDT limiter, a Boss LM-2 limiter, Dunlop Bass Wah, Zoom B1x and assorted other effects.

My Sansamp BDDI has a busted switch, so while I have it repaired (or butcher the job myself) I have taken the preamp out of my effects chain. This has thrown everything out of wack, much to my experimenting pleasure. I play passive basses, a Squire VM Jazz and an EPI Tbird mostly.

The thing that I have found to be most interesting is how my Boss LM-2B behaves without having the Sansamp in the chain. I really didn't like the sound. With the Sansamp and Dunlop Wah the limiter is essential... but without those two effects... not so much. Without the Sansamp and the limiter on, I find that my tone lacks any depth. If I turn off the LM-2B, the sound opens up. I have always been under the impression that the limiter is on all the time... I used to thing that compression/limiting is just something that all bass players use. I am begining to rethink this.

I have the limiter in my effects chain for two reasons. 1) To tame the wah when I use it. 2) Because I am afraid of shredding the amp or speaker cabs. Am I misusing the limiter? Is the DDT enough to keep me from blowing up something expensive? I don't like having that red "limit/clip" light lit all the time. It makes me nervous.

Opinions? Suggestions? Flames?

[FreaqyFrequency]

Originally Posted by GreggBummer

Equipment: Peavey Tour 450 which has a DDT limiter, a Boss LM-2 limiter, Dunlop Bass Wah, Zoom B1x and assorted other effects.

My Sansamp BDDI has a busted switch, so while I have it repaired (or butcher the job myself) I have taken the preamp out of my effects chain. This has thrown everything out of wack, much to my experimenting pleasure. I play passive basses, a Squire VM Jazz and an EPI Tbird mostly.

The thing that I have found to be most interesting is how my Boss LM-2B behaves without having the Sansamp in the chain. I really didn't like the sound. With the Sansamp and Dunlop Wah the limiter is essential... but without those two effects... not so much. Without the Sansamp and the limiter on, I find that my tone lacks any depth. If I turn off the LM-2B, the sound opens up. I have always been under the impression that the limiter is on all the time... I used to thing that compression/limiting is just something that all bass players use. I am begining to rethink this.

I have the limiter in my effects chain for two reasons. 1) To tame the wah when I use it. 2) Because I am afraid of shredding the amp or speaker cabs. Am I misusing the limiter? Is the DDT enough to keep me from blowing up something expensive? I don't like having that red "limit/clip" light lit all the time. It makes me nervous.

Opinions? Suggestions? Flames?

As Bongo will likely tell you (and speaking of himself, please check out his FAQ if you haven't already!), the Boss "Limiter" pedals are not really limiters at all, they are actually fairly average compressors in terms of compression ratio.

As for your thoughts on the tone, I think that can just be attributed to different strokes for different folks. Some people like a compressed tone, others don't. Of course, the LM-2B definitely isn't one of the best compressors ever made, so it could be unfair to judge whether or not you like compression just by that particular unit.

For what it's worth, I love my Demeter Compulator, but there are times when I turn it off. It most definitely has its uses, and it's a great compressor. And no, not every bass player uses compression. Compression is simply a tool in my chest for me, I use it often, or I don't use it often.

[bongomania]

Actually it's not that they aren't limiters, it's that they aren't just limiters. Big distinction there.

What I'd actually tell you is that he's right on the other points: it's a tool to be used when you feel that tool is useful; it's not quite as transparent sounding as you might like; and different tunes for different goons. Some people like the coloration a compressor can impart, others hate it, and still others use it occasionally as needed whether they like it or not.

And do check the FAQ. Some of what you're describing may be caused by the way you have it set up.

[FreaqyFrequency]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Actually it's not that they aren't limiters, it's that they aren't just limiters. Big distinction there.

Ah, okay! I had always read your review of the LMB-3 as "it acts much more like a compressor than a limiter". Disregard my last, Gregg.

[GreggBummer]

I have read Bongo's wonderful (and exhaustive) compressor FAQ.

I guess my post was as much a statement of revelation as it was a question. The preamps removal from the chain has been quite a blessing.. I am exploring my tone options with the EQ and compressor/limiter.

I am sure there are better units out there than the LM-2B (as Bongomania stated in his reviews). However, I think that this is the right unit for me... for right now. I want to keep my talent to gear ratio under control.

Follow up question: Would there be any benefit to running a compressor together with the LM-2B? Is the compressor/limiter on the amp and the LM-2B running together overkill?

I understand that this is all in your ears... but I am looking at this from a technology standpoint right now.

Regards,
Bummer

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by GreggBummer

I want to keep my talent to gear ratio under control.

Tell me about it! I think most of us are wrestling that one.

Originally Posted by GreggBummer

Would there be any benefit to running a compressor together with the LM-2B? Is the compressor/limiter on the amp and the LM-2B running together overkill?

I haven't used the Peavey so I can't speak on it's abilities or qualities, however the comp/limiters built into amp heads are generally not very good. At least in principle, running two average-quality comp/limiters in series is not a great recipe. If by your own experimentation you determine that one of the devices does a better job of smoothing out smaller dynamic changes, and the other does a better job of peak limiting, then from a technical standpoint that is a reasonable approach. But if either one of them (I'm looking at Peavey here) tries to cover the whole dynamic range, or lacks a threshold control, then regardless of the sound quality, the pair of them would be redundant.

[GreggBummer]

Originally Posted by bongomania

... if either one of them (I'm looking at Peavey here) tries to cover the whole dynamic range, or lacks a threshold control, then regardless of the sound quality, the pair of them would be redundant.

The Peavey does lack a threshold control. I don't think it is intended to act as a "tone shaping" limiter. The DDT is supposed to protect the amp from damage. Supposedly. I trust PV on it, they haven't steered me wrong in the past.

I am going to wait until everyone is out of the house so I can crank my amp up and play with the LM2B a bit more. I want to set the threshold so it is as transparent as possible and keeps the LIMITER/CLIP light from being constantly lit.

For me, my approach to this is "do no harm". I can't afford to replace an amp/cab if I tear it up. However, I want to run this thing at a volume that will cut through two loud guitar players, a singer, and the loudest drummer in South Jersey. I know volume is not exclusively a function of power from the amp, but pushing a strong, stable, clean signal is a good start.

As an aside, this rig I have now is the nicest I have owned. It certainly isn't the best in the world... but it is great for me. I am a tweaker... so I am never really satisfied.