Zoom B3 As Preamp - Page 6

CharlieC · #**101** 01-02-2013, 07:11 AM

Consistent DSP

On a side-note, one of the major benefits of digital signal processing (DSP) by a given, supporting manufacturer is that the models of amps and effects, in theory, should be consistent over time and future products. Should you like a certain amp emulation, for example, you may be surprised to discover that it has also been included and/or perhaps improved in a new product.

Zoom is about to release an MS-50B pedal that will contain many of the very same amp/effect simulations as in the B3, with increased power to support 6 simultaneous sims (over the B3's limit of 3), and they packaged it into a stomp box chassis that is one-third the size, and one-half the price of the B3 ($99 USD)

Granted, the greatly reduced form factor of the MS-50B is inferior to the B3's triple-stomp with XLR out, but regardless, it will indeed be possible to dial-in your exact B3 tone with the MS-50B when the sims and their parameters are identical. The thought of having one's favorite tones across multiple devices and platforms is very exciting!

As long as one is satisfied and inspired by it, the future may very well be DSP, but what do I know?

Cheers!

CharlieC · #**102** 01-03-2013, 09:12 AM

Moving In Day

For every B3 owner, there will come the time when you want to stop preset twiddling and start building real-world patches of your own. Have fun, you will not break anything, but I would like to point out a few things to help you along the way.

You will notice that Zoom has kindly pre-loaded every available patch location with preset tones, some celebrity-created, all with clever names, and unlike myself, you will perhaps find at least one you would ever consider using :-) What Zoom did not leave for us, however, is an empty, ground-zero patch location where one can roll a custom tone of their own without any artifacts from a preset that came before. Until Zoom provides us a patch-level "Initialize/Reset" option to clear any existing patch cooties, it is entirely our job to ensure a clean starting point.

Now knowing that you have no choice but to build your first patch on the ground of an existing preset, make sure you are aware of the nasty "BAL" parameter that exists under the TOTAL menu for each patch location. It surely is great that Zoom has given us the ability to blend our raw bass tone with the sum tone of the TOTAL patch, but I once lost 20-minutes of my life trying to determine why my first attempt at a custom patch sounded strangely anemic. Unknown to me at the time, the preset location I started from had its "BAL" set very low. Thank you, Victor Wooten! :-)

In all seriousness, things are mostly down-hill from here. Zoom did us a great service by forcing default parameter values on all effects when one selects a new effect type. For all amplifier simulations, I would highly suggest that one quickly get familiar with the "MIX" parameter and fine-tune it away from its default value (see previous post.)

In addition to cleverly naming your patch, when applying the finishing touches, be mindful of the various level parameters and the few places where they are governed to avoid clipping the B3 (see previous post.)

All edits are automatically "Saved" by the B3, both a blessing and a curse (see previous post), but you may later find yourself in need of services provided under the STORE/SWAP button.

Good luck!

MrM · #**103** 01-03-2013, 09:21 PM

Very interesting thread, thanks for everyone's contribution.

I'm a new B3 owner, and not sure how best to utilize it in a live scenario. I have an Ampeg PF-500 head and 610HLF cab. This is what I've tried so far:

1. Connect the B3 directly into the head. Of course, the PF-500 adds it's own color, defeating the idea of the B3 amp sims.

2. Connect the B3 into the PF-500's power amp in. This clears the way to get the true amp sims but... the only way to control volume is with the B3 Levels - awkward to say the least.

3. CharlieC's use of a Crown XLS1000 seemed like the way to go, so I got one of my own to try it out. Interestingly, the B3 does not seem to have a strong enough signal output to make the Crown useable. I set the Crown for bridged-mono, connected the B3 to Channel 1 with a 1/4" connection. Connected the Crown to the cab with Speakon cable. However, even with the Crown's volume maxed it is nowhere near loud enough. I've got the various levels in the B3 cranked up - amp sim, Total, Global. Not enough, not even close.

Charlie, do you have any thoughts, I'm about to return the Crown as it is not getting the job done with the B3, contrary to what you have been able to do with it.

CharlieC · #**104** 01-03-2013, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrM

Very interesting thread, thanks for everyone's contribution.

I'm a new B3 owner, and not sure how best to utilize it in a live scenario. I have an Ampeg PF-500 head and 610HLF cab. This is what I've tried so far:

1. Connect the B3 directly into the head. Of course, the PF-500 adds it's own color, defeating the idea of the B3 amp sims.

2. Connect the B3 into the PF-500's power amp in. This clears the way to get the true amp sims but... the only way to control volume is with the B3 Levels - awkward to say the least.

3. CharlieC's use of a Crown XLS1000 seemed like the way to go, so I got one of my own to try it out. Interestingly, the B3 does not seem to have a strong enough signal output to make the Crown useable. I set the Crown for bridged-mono, connected the B3 to Channel 1 with a 1/4" connection. Connected the Crown to the cab with Speakon cable. However, even with the Crown's volume maxed it is nowhere near loud enough. I've got the various levels in the B3 cranked up - amp sim, Total, Global. Not enough, not even close.

Charlie, do you have any thoughts, I'm about to return the Crown as it is not getting the job done with the B3, contrary to what you have been able to do with it.

The B3 combined with the Crown XLS 1000 shakes my house with 8-ohm speaker loads and can destroy my wife's fine china with 4-ohm loads. I believe the issue here is with the various "Level" parameters at play in the B3 or perhaps another issue to be determined.

If I had to guess, I bet you are not using the specially-wired Speakon cable (+1/+2) required for bridge operation and thus you are only getting about 200 watts max out of the amp.

Should you indeed be using the special cable then please specify the amplifier simulation you are using along with values of all parameters at the amp sim level, the TOTAL level, and the GLOBAL level and we'll go from there.

Rest assured, the B3 and XLS 1000 are perfect together as my next-door neighbors can attest.

Cheers!

pm2lp · #**105** 01-05-2013, 11:22 AM

Do you think the B3 as a preamp will work with an EBS AC300 (active speaker)? Without anything else, just the b3 straight to the cabinet. I found one for a good price and I've been trying to use the b3 as preamp since you began the thread.

CharlieC · #**106** 01-05-2013, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pm2lp

Do you think the B3 as a preamp will work with an EBS AC300 (active speaker)? Without anything else, just the b3 straight to the cabinet. I found one for a good price and I've been trying to use the b3 as preamp since you began the thread.

Although I have not tried it nor heard this particular model active speaker, I think it will work very well with the B3 given the specs I have read. What I find interesting about it is that it is a true bass cabinet with bass speakers and a built-in power amp. Also worth noting is that it is no longer being manufactured for whatever reason.

Should you go that route, please let us know how it works out for you.

Cheers!

pm2lp · #**107** 01-05-2013, 12:51 PM

Thanks for the quick reply, another opinion was all I needed to make the deal. So, I just ordered the AC300, I'll probably get it next wed/thurs and then I'll let you know if it really works.

Cheers

CharlieC · #**108** 01-05-2013, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pm2lp

Thanks for the quick reply, another opinion was all I needed to make the deal. So, I just ordered the AC300, I'll probably get it next wed/thurs and then I'll let you know if it really works.

Cheers

Two things that may be helpful to you when you first pair the B3 to the AC300:

1. I notice that there is some proprietary phantom power circuit present in the AC300 that may or may not be harmful to the B3. To be safe, you may want to ensure that phantom power is never engaged when the B3 is connected unless you learn otherwise.

2. There appears to be a Level control on the rear of the AC300 that you might find handy as your master volume knob. You may need to experiment with the B3 to find an optimal GLOBAL menu "Level" value that will allow best operation with the physical Level control on the AC300.

pm2lp · #**109** 01-08-2013, 09:30 AM

Thanks for the tips, I just received the AC300, it is actually an AC315 (same thing, but doesn't have a tweeter), and it works like a charm with the B3. Although the sound seems beefier and more ampeg-alike (mix at 0%), for now, it doesn't seem louder than my Ashdown Mag300, but I don't think the volume is going to be a problem. I have not tried it at a "gig level" yet, I will test it louder as soon as I move it to the studio. For now I can recommend this setup to anyone, specially if you can get your hands in one these for the price I got mine. Thank you CharlieC once again for this great thread, it allowed me to expand the potencial of my B3.

CharlieC · #**110** 01-08-2013, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pm2lp

Thanks for the tips, I just received the AC300, it is actually an AC315 (same thing, but doesn't have a tweeter), and it works like a charm with the B3. Although the sound seems beefier and more ampeg-alike (mix at 0%), for now, it doesn't seem louder than my Ashdown Mag300, but I don't think the volume is going to be a problem. I have not tried it at a "gig level" yet, I will test it louder as soon as I move it to the studio. For now I can recommend this setup to anyone, specially if you can get your hands in one these for the price I got mine. Thank you CharlieC once again for this great thread, it allowed me to expand the potencial of my B3.

Thanks, pm2lp

Now knowing that you have the tweeter-less version of that cabinet, I highly recommend the Mix 0 value as you have adopted

Cheers!

BrentSimons · #**111** 01-08-2013, 12:55 PM

Looks like Musicians Friend is out of B3's until March. I guess I'll be waiting for a bit.
Brent

CharlieC · #**112** 01-08-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrentSimons

Looks like Musicians Friend is out of B3's until March. I guess I'll be waiting for a bit.
Brent

It appears that AMS is similarly out of stock http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-ZOO-B3-LIST

Hang in there, Brent!

BrentSimons · #**113** 01-08-2013, 01:18 PM

It's alright. I ordered one of the Line 6 FBV Express foot controllers to use with my Bass Pod XT for the time being. Still want to try that Zoom out though!
Brent

**gard0300** · #**114** 01-08-2013, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrentSimons

Looks like Musicians Friend is out of B3's until March. I guess I'll be waiting for a bit.
Brent

I talked to someone at Musicians-friend today. They claimed 2/22/13 was the next batch. If you can't wait Amazon has some in stock. They (Amazon) have a similar return policy. I will say I know for a fact you can ask for a lower price at MF and receive it... If your willing to wait.

**gard0300** · #**115** 01-08-2013, 01:36 PM

CharlieC... I may be dumb here... But couldn't you use one of these passive DI's (Behringer DI400P Ultra-DI HIGH-PERFORMANCE Passive DI-Box) and send one signal to the Crown and one to the FOH. Just asking. I know you would know.

BrentSimons · #**116** 01-08-2013, 01:38 PM

Yes I have credit at Musicians Friend which is why I'm kinda stuck.

Brent

CharlieC · #**117** 01-08-2013, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gard0300

CharlieC... I may be dumb here... But couldn't you use one of these passive DI's (Behringer DI400P Ultra-DI HIGH-PERFORMANCE Passive DI-Box) and send one signal to the Crown and one to the FOH. Just asking. I know you would know.

If one had a really nice third-party DI box, one could tap the B3's 1/4" output being fed to the power amp and then feed FOH with the DI box's XLR out, but IMHO the B3's internal XLR out is good enough for that.

Either way for me, the bigger underlying issue still remains in that ideally I would like independent "Mix" control/parameters for both the 1/4" and XLR outs, but thankfully I am still able to get by without.

Cheers!

CharlieC · #**118** 01-08-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrentSimons

Yes I have credit at Musicians Friend which is why I'm kinda stuck.

Brent

... and I am hopeful you will later learn that the B3 was well-worth the wait!

2funky · #**119** 01-08-2013, 03:27 PM

Does anyone know if the rhythm patterns from the Zoom B3 can be excluded from the DI output in order to record the bass only while hearing the rhythm track/metronome through the headphones/main? I have the NI KA6 interface and I'm assuming I will want to record though that instead of the Zoom B3 converters. Thank you for any insight.

CharlieC · #**120** 01-08-2013, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2funky

Does anyone know if the rhythm patterns from the Zoom B3 can be excluded from the DI output in order to record the bass only while hearing the rhythm track/metronome through the headphones/main? I have the NI KA6 interface and I'm assuming I will want to record though that instead of the Zoom B3 converters. Thank you for any insight.

I believe that the B3's rhythm section is inseperable from the bass tone on all outputs, which includes 1/4", XLR, and USB.

With this said, the only other option I can suggest is to record the rhythm/metronome as a separate track in your recording software first and then overdub the bass track(s) after that.

Cheers!