Agressive pickups?

bigblondeafro87 · #1 03-13-2007, 09:06 PM

Hey I'm building a bass out of walnut and am looking for an aggressive tone similar to John Wetton's on Larks' Tongues in Aspic and Red. Right now I'm looking at a P-pickup in the neck position and a MM in the bridge position. Any reccomendations for angry sounding pickups?

IconBasser · #2 03-13-2007, 10:28 PM

yessum, these'll do it for ya
Carvin's humbuckers

atrapp · #3 03-13-2007, 10:43 PM

Rio Grande, you'll have to call them for the MM pup as it is not listed on their site.

m.oreilly · #4 03-13-2007, 10:48 PM

though i would just go with two of the first...

James Hart · #5 03-13-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblondeafro87

an aggressive tone similar to John Wetton's on Larks' Tongues in Aspic and Red.

Stock Fender P with some stainless rounds through a 100 watt all tube Hiwatt dimed into a pair of 4x12 cabs is all you need.

But yeah, I LOVE Delano pickups... best on the market IMHO

Dave Muscato · #6 03-14-2007, 01:19 AM

2nd the stock P-bass... the aggression (grit & compression) is more from driving the tubes hard, I think. I can get pretty much that exact tone with my rig --> Variax 705 bass, set to model the '63 Precision (rounds), then set my Bass POD xt Live to the Hiwatt 200 DR, a little bit of Dynacomp, a little bit of Tube Screamer, there you go.

Dave

CElton · #7 03-14-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atrapp

Rio Grande, you'll have to call them for the MM pup as it is not listed on their site.

+1 on Rio Grande...In your face agressive.

chunkstyle · #8 03-14-2007, 10:21 AM

you can buy MFDs from the G&L website.

MFD = Instant Gratification.

4Mal · #9 03-14-2007, 01:06 PM

Here's a really stupid question... If you want aggressive, why walnut ? Wouldn't Ash and something with a maple top be punchier, brighter and hence more aggressive ?

What are you planning on for a bridge ? the BAII is about as aggressive sounding a bridge as exists in my experience.

From a pickup standpoint, I would be looking for something that is very detailed and not 'hot'. I've had my fling with hot pup's and they tend to sound dull to my ear. My Areo Type 1 PJ's are about as agressive sounding as I can use. They aren't hot - the aggressive comes from the upper mids. It seems to me that hotter pickups tend to suppress the very frequencies that give me that. I can't hear Weton in my head. I'm thinking Squire and BSSM period Flea. I'll have to go back and listen to the LT stuff again.

Do recall that when that album came out, there weren't a lot of hot pickup options out there. Maybe Dimarzio and they tended to be pretty noisy early on. I would seriously doubt that Wetton was using anything like that. My take on it is that his version of aggressive came more from his rig and a more or less stock P-Bass. I haven;t researched Wetton forever so I reserve the right to be all wet.

Aiming at Wetton's tone is certainly a worthy goal. I loved Larks Tongue when it came out. Saw them for that and the Starless & Bible Black tour. Great shows Wetton's singing! Damn, what a voice. Rock 'n Roll personified but with a polite English spin.

Best K/C show of all was Discipline for me though. Levin & Bruford, Wow! Belew, holy smokes! Fripp - lord, what can you say ...

anyway - back to your thread.

bigblondeafro87 · #10 03-14-2007, 08:04 PM

Well I want it to be aggresive, but without harsh sounding highs. If you listen to the high notes wetton plays, they're very round sounding, yet he still has a defined and in your face low end and no boominess. I'm hoping walnut will acheive this, plus the good looks

Unless you have a better suggestion?

Also I'm not looking to replicate his sounds, but rather have that as a large influence in my sound. So right now it seems that the general populus here at TB says either Delano or Rio Grande pickups are the way to go...

4Mal · #11 03-14-2007, 10:03 PM

I've done Rio Muy Grandes in a JB-2. that one was over the top bright. 1 pc ash body, monster G&L bridge, maple neck. a treble machine. The Rio's were a good fit as that particular bass needed the high's tamed.

What the Rio's do is to hit the front end of your amp hard. So you have to reduce your input gain to avoid clipping. Preamp tube clipping isn't real pleasant. It certainly doesn't get real aggessive as that clipping suck's down the punch. WHen you back off the input gain to get of the clipping - guess where you are ? The same place you'd be with a lower output pickup - but with less detail. This is a part of the fallacy of high output pickups in basses.

Take Geddy for instance - hardly a lounge player in terms of aggressive bass tone. Jazz pickups - are they extra hot ? Nope - he got that aspect of his sound by providing a clear full range signal from his bass and then copious amounts of EQ and gain structuring at his amp...

In another bass the Rio's would come across as dark. I haven't heard the Delano's but based on their reputation as 'hot' I would back away.

YMMv

One other thought. If you really want hot and you buy into needing detail. 1 single Dark Star. Mounted with the poles pieces just 'bridge-ward' of the traditional P-Bass sweet spot. The Dark Star will get aggressive if you want it to and there is enough signal there for EQ work to get you in a Wetton like territory.

James Hart · #12 03-14-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mal

based on their reputation as 'hot' I would back away.

actually my Dimarzio Ultras and Suhr dual coil have louder output than my Delano MC7-FE. The Delano I have are detailed and punchy... not overly hot.

here is a clip I did this morning while testing my new Nano Small Stone

2.2mb it starts with a mellow finger picking thing and then some OD from my amp. Bee w/Delano MC7-FE & Bee Pre -> Nano Stone -> Peavey Classic 400 -> Peavey 1820 cabinet picked up with an AKG D3800 vocal mic.

http://www.myselfalone.com/tayste2000/stone/2.mp3

and some littler ones:
http://www.myselfalone.com/tayste2000/stone/5.mp3
http://www.myselfalone.com/tayste2000/stone/3.mp3

and here is one the other morning noodling through the peavey cab for the first time. I'm hot rodding the guts and was just looking for a "before" tone.

http://www.myselfalone.com/tracks/mp3s/1820.mp3

(yeah I need to get off the net and practice more)

ALiP BoB · #13 03-14-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mal

Here's a really stupid question... If you want aggressive, why walnut ? Wouldn't Ash and something with a maple top be punchier, brighter and hence more aggressive ?

Huh? I thought that a wood like Mahogany (dark wood according to Warmoth's scale) would sound more aggressive then a wood like Ash (bright wood according to Warmoth's scale)

Brighter or Darker = Aggressive??

BTW, name some great songs by this John Wetton.
His name usually pops out in "How to get aggressive tone" threads. Which I often read

ALiP BoB · #14 03-14-2007, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atrapp

Rio Grande, you'll have to call them for the MM pup as it is not listed on their site.

You are really making me curious about this PUs. REALLY curious. Got any soundclips?

12bass · #15 03-14-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALiP BoB

BTW, name some great songs by this John Wetton.

I'd suggest listening to the song Red by King Crimson..... some great-sounding aggressive bass on that one.

savinggrace · #16 03-15-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALiP BoB

Huh? I thought that a wood like Mahogany (dark wood according to Warmoth's scale) would sound more aggressive then a wood like Ash (bright wood according to Warmoth's scale)

Brighter or Darker = Aggressive??

BTW, name some great songs by this John Wetton.
His name usually pops out in "How to get aggressive tone" threads. Which I often read

No, Mahogany has a warmer tone, and thus will "take the bite" off an aggressive tone compared to Ash.

However, this could be either a positive or negative thing depending on ones playing style, their p/u's, amp, cabs and how they want their sound to end up.

I play with a pick and my Delano soapbars are more on the aggresive side of soap pups. The mahogany helps to take the edge off of the harshness of the pick.

I think Alder is always the best bet if one wants to achieve a full tonal balance (It has a balanced tone and a good combination of punchy and warmth whereas Mahogany is warmer sounding, but can lose a little definition in the low registers and Ash is quite bright and aggresive sounding in general).

Thats being said, pickups play a much larger role in the realm of aggression/ non aggresion.

FaithNoMan · #17 03-15-2007, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALiP BoB

BTW, name some great songs by this John Wetton.
His name usually pops out in "How to get aggressive tone" threads. Which I often read

Forget all the others, go straight to "Starless", off the album "Red":

It starts at the 4:20 mark, and goes to the end of the song - one of the nastiest, angriest Precision buildups recorded...John's bass goes from motown-smooth to downright fierce and vicious, especially right at the end of the song, where it comes crashing through the ensemble like an apocalypse.

As a big Chris Squire and Paul D'Amour fan, I always looked to Rickenbackers for aggressive bass tones, but John Wetton made me realize a Precision can sound just as nasty - they have this crude, unrefined "bashing" sound when pushed that hits you right in the gut, which is just as aggressive as a Ric's "toothy edge" anyday..

Wow James, now I'm really interested in these Delano pups.. ....and I thought the GAS was almost gone after I got my 4003

scarekrow · #18 03-15-2007, 05:48 AM

I like this Seymour Duncan in the 'standard' or neck position. It's got uoomphff with bite.

11044-17 • antiquity II™ pickup for single coil p-bass®
Often called the Tele® Bass, this pickup keeps the traditional look
of the ‘50s and ‘60s. The slightly stronger Alnico V rod magnets gives the pickup more presence and output. It’s a little fatter and fuller-sounding than the ‘50s Antiquity pickup.

fullrangebass · #19 03-15-2007, 06:08 AM

As a growly P I'd suggest DiMarzio Will Power Middle. Great midrange presence and growl from a P (I am far from being a DiMarzio fan when it comes to bass pickups, but this pick up delivers what we are looking for, in this thread)

4Mal · #20 03-15-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Hart

actually my Dimarzio Ultras and Suhr dual coil have louder output than my Delano MC7-FE. The Delano I have are detailed and punchy... not overly hot.

here is a clip I did this morning while testing my new Nano Small Stone

2.2mb it starts with a mellow finger picking thing and then some OD from my amp. Bee w/Delano MC7-FE & Bee Pre -> Nano Stone -> Peavey Classic 400 -> Peavey 1820 cabinet picked up with an AKG D3800 vocal mic.

http://www.myselfalone.com/tayste2000/stone/2.mp3

and some littler ones:
http://www.myselfalone.com/tayste2000/stone/5.mp3
http://www.myselfalone.com/tayste2000/stone/3.mp3

and here is one the other morning noodling through the peavey cab for the first time. I'm hot rodding the guts and was just looking for a "before" tone.

http://www.myselfalone.com/tracks/mp3s/1820.mp3

(yeah I need to get off the net and practice more)

Interesting - I'd only heard about the 'hotter' Delano's. Based on the look - with the extra large pole pieces I was making the 'they make hot pickups, assumption...' well, duh. Haven't had a chance to listen to your clips yet but I'll try to get there.