Alembic electronics - worth the price?

[bassandbeyond]

I recently picked up a used set of Alembic MXY pickups to install in my Tune Kingbass. I'm also looking for a nice preamp to go with them and am tempted to splurge on Alembic signature electronics to get close to that genuine Alembic tone. But I called Alembic and they want $1300 just for the electronics!

I'm well aware of alternative filter preamps like the East products. Can anybody here persuade me that Alembic electronics are worth the extra cost?

[KenToby]

I have the same issue. I have an EPIC 5 string with Alembic pickups and a Sadowsky preamp. The output is VERY low and the EQ controls are weird. I spoke to Mike Lull and he said unfortunatly if I want to use the stock pickups Ill have to buy the matching preamp. Alembic wants $600 for one

[bassandbeyond]

Well, my understanding is that Alembic pickups actually can be successfully used with a variety of preamps (including the East pre), as long as the pre has adjustable gain with sufficient headroom.

[bassplaynmatt]

I just got my 89' Elan plus back from Alembic after having the headstock repaired and I must say they are amazing luthiers! That being said, I think the Series 1 and 2 preamps are normally pared with Alembics SC-1 humbuckers and not the MXYs. You might want to consider the preamp they use in the Europa which is what's in mine. It sounds great with those pickups and I'm sure it's way more affordable than the series 1. It's got volume, pickup pan, bass and treble 3-way quick change switches, and a sweep-able mid they cal the "Q" switch. All in all it's a very user friendly preamp on stage and in the studio.

[bassandbeyond]

Thanks, Matt. It's actually the Signature model preamp that I'm considering, not the Series I. If I were going for Series electronics, I might as well just order a whole new bass!

But I am curious about the Europa pre. Does it have a low pass filter along with the Q switch? I would love to hear what a Europa sounds like, since I've never tried one.

[bassman10096]

I am curious about the Europa pre. Does it have a low pass filter along with the Q switch? I would love to hear what a Europa sounds like, since I've never tried one.

Europa electronics and most, but not all Alembic-installed elec packages are based around the low pass filter. The Q switch, would not be there without the low pass, because they work together. The low pass doesn't boost or cut frequencies, it just adjusts the top of the frequency range allowed to pass through the filter. The Q switch just adds a moderate bump (boost) at that top frequency.

As far as how a Europa would sound, apart from the electronics, Alembics are built to create the most rigid frame for strings to vibrate on. From the neck through (some Alembics are set neck, too), brass nut, dual trussrods, brass bridge (often) resting on a 6 oz brass block, Alembics do as well as any other maker (much better than the norm) at keeping all the string vibration from running off into the neck, body, etc. That's a mouthfull, but it does contribute a lot to the sound you get from an Alembic (also, to the feel of playing one). I have no hands-on experience with your bass, but suspect it's also pretty highly engineered.

Whether it makes sense to invest in Alembic electronics alone? The price sort of makes it more attractive to look at buying a whole Alembic. If you've never tried one out, you might want to do so before you decide. My other thought is that Alembic's retail prices (do go through a dealer for a discount off list) are high and Alembic pick and preamp pairings turn up used on Ebay pretty frequently. The good news there is that you can get a very significant discount and that Alembic guts are built like a brick sh*&thouse. From a reputable seller, who's tested the components himself, I'd be willing to buy on that basis. Good luck.

[Skelf]

HI
We have used Alembic pickups with the ACG EQ pre-amps with good results. The low pass filter on the ACG goes as high as the Alembic but goes a lot lower than it.
Alan

[tbone409]

Originally Posted by Skelf

HI
We have used Alembic pickups with the ACG EQ pre-amps with good results. The low pass filter on the ACG goes as high as the Alembic but goes a lot lower than it.
Alan

and i have heard nothing but glowing reviews for Alan's preamp

[bassandbeyond]

Thanks for the info, everybody. Of course, I do realize that no other bass can be made to sound exactly like an Alembic, but for practical reasons (mainly weight, ergonomics, and PRICE), I'm opting to modify my existing bass instead.

The only Alembic electronics packages that interest me are those from the higher-end models, but I've been so far unable to track down any deals on a used Signature preamp. Has anyone here had the opportunity to do an A/B comparison of Alembic vs. East electronics in the same bass?

[Skelf]

The only person that I know of that has used both is Stanley Clarke.
Alan

[bassandbeyond]

Well, now I can answer my own question! Since my original post, I have tried both the ACG pre and an Alembic pre with these Alembic pickups, and they both sounded very good tonally, but in the end I found that only the Alembic preamp seems to be really compatible with Alembic pickups.

KenToby was right, the output level of Alembic pickups seems to be too low to produce adequate gain with most other preamps, including ACG. There were also problems with feedback and eq function. And with the discount available through a dealer, the Alembic preamp only wound up costing me an extra $160. Certainly not cheap electronics, but I have never been happier with my sound, so I guess they are worth the price in my case!

[Skelf]

I think it depends on which Alembic pickups you use. As I said earlier in the thread we have used the pre-amp with a set of Alembic which worked fine. With regard to the feed back problem this happened again but the problem was tracked down to a faulty installation and once it was put right the pre-amp worked fine. This was not with Alembic pickups and may not be relevant to this particular case. More research will be done if the chance comes up.

Alan

[SGD Lutherie]

Getting back to the original question... are they worth the price? There's nothing really special about the parts or circuitry that makes them worth $4000 for the Series II electronics.

It's high quality stuff, but no more so than any of the newer preamps on the market, such as the ACG.

You can often pickup up scratched Alembic pickups directly from them for pretty cheap. I have made simple JFET buffers for people to use with Alembic pickups and they worked fine. They were the same buffers I used to use when I made low Z pickups.

The MYX pickups are about 8K, but very low output.

[bassandbeyond]

Thanks for the responses. I'd like to make it clear that in no way do I mean to denigrate the ACG preamp. On the contrary, I was quite impressed with Alan's product, despite my disappointing experience with it.

I now understand why Alembic normally only sells their pickups and preamps as prematched sets....it seems that they are really not designed to be used in combination with non-Alembic products.

[spode master]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

Getting back to the original question... are they worth the price? There's nothing really special about the parts or circuitry that makes them worth $4000 for the Series II electronics.

It's high quality stuff, but no more so than any of the newer preamps on the market, such as the ACG.

You can often pickup up scratched Alembic pickups directly from them for pretty cheap. I have made simple JFET buffers for people to use with Alembic pickups and they worked fine. They were the same buffers I used to use when I made low Z pickups.

The MYX pickups are about 8K, but very low output.

The one thing I do know about Alembics pre's (there isn't anything amazing or unusual about their pre-amps as an electronic circuit), Alembic uses ultra high grade components, everything. The pots they use are military grade high tolerance Ceremet 5% tolerance.

The filter circuit requires a stacked ganged pot, again ceremet high tolerance (audio taper?). I have tried ordering samples of these from pot manufacturers. They are not standard off the shelf items they require minimum 100 piece orders at ~ 20$ a Pot reseller cost.

Every resistor is a high tolerance metal film, I'm sure they use the highest quality capacitors as well everything is "Military grade".

Very few manufacturers use such precision components in musical instruments.

So is it worth the cost, some of the cost is certainly justified in materials alone.

The rest of the cost is in the fact that.

1: All of their instruments are created by fairly skilled craftsmen in Santa Rosa California I'm sure they have to pay them a reasonable wage to keep the talent.

2: Ron Designed most of the electronics himself. And chooses no compromise components that really are the best money can buy.

3: The are a relatively small Ma and Pa company

So hand Made in USA, Made in Californica, Ma and Pa Ultra high quality.

I think its fantastic that they can survive in this instant gratification uber consumer culture.

As far as being worth it that's more subjective.

I think there is much more merit to buying Alembic Quality VS buying Gold Plated "audiophile grade" electrical outlets.

Is the alembic filter sound what you need? Or do you want something else??

[SGD Lutherie]

First off, I'm a big Alembic fan.

I did say it's high quality stuff, but I really think they are getting the high prices on the electronics based on their name.

I have a couple of Activator preamps here (the ones with the low pass filters). The pots are made by Clarostat, one has a private label dual gang pot marked "made in Mexico". They have Bourns trim pots (Costa Rica), Wima caps, CARBON film resistors (!), and RC4558n op amps. The RC4558 is a nice op amp, but hardly expensive or fancy.

I think an Audere or ACG preamp is on par quality wise, if not surpassing it.

The quality of parts is maybe the same as an EMG preamp. EMG uses high quality Noble pots and everything is surface mount components (and surprisingly all done in their factory).

The AXY pickups are three pieces of copper clad circuit board, a ceramic magnet, a lexan spacer, and some copper wire and copper mesh for screening. Very simple pickups.

Is it worth $1,100.00?

I honestly think that's over priced, even if the pots were $20 each, and I doubt they are. There just isn't a whole lot to the thing to justify such a high cost. The Series preamps aren't very complicated either.

But they were putting studio quality electronics on board before anyone else did. I just think the industry has caught up with them.

[Funkinthetrunk]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

First off, I'm a big Alembic fan.

I did say it's high quality stuff, but I really think they are getting the high prices on the electronics based on their name.

I have a couple of Activator preamps here (the ones with the low pass filters). The pots are made by Clarostat, one has a private label dual gang pot marked "made in Mexico". They have Bourns trim pots (Costa Rica), Wima caps, CARBON film resistors (!), and RC4558n op amps. The RC4558 is a nice op amp, but hardly expensive or fancy.

I think an Audere or ACG preamp is on par quality wise, if not surpassing it.

The quality of parts is maybe the same as an EMG preamp. EMG uses high quality Noble pots and everything is surface mount components (and surprisingly all done in their factory).

The AXY pickups are three pieces of copper clad circuit board, a ceramic magnet, a lexan spacer, and some copper wire and copper mesh for screening. Very simple pickups.

Is it worth $1,100.00?

I honestly think that's over priced, even if the pots were $20 each, and I doubt they are. There just isn't a whole lot to the thing to justify such a high cost. The Series preamps aren't very complicated either.

But they were putting studio quality electronics on board before anyone else did. I just think the industry has caught up with them.

I'm a super lover of Alembics, too. I own a 1981 Series II and absolutely love the sound of it. It sounds like no other I have. But, using their "custom quote" calculator, my bass would cost nearly $20K new, today, like right now...

Which is very reasonable! Only if I get those 5 wining numbers...or get drafted in the first round in the NFL...Or run a Ponzi scheme.

[bassandbeyond]

Well, of course it's simply a matter of supply and demand. Apparently, there are enough middle-aged, high-income Stanley Clarke fans out there to keep them busy taking orders. In a way, I respect a company like Alembic for opting to raise prices in response to demand, as opposed to ramping up production and probably compromising on quality. It's just a shame that they have practically priced themselves out of the reach of full-time working musicians.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Funkinthetrunk

I'm a super lover of Alembics, too. I own a 1981 Series II and absolutely love the sound of it. It sounds like no other I have. But, using their "custom quote" calculator, my bass would cost nearly $20K new, today, like right now...

Hey, lucky you! I always wanted one, but ended up making my own basses inspired by Alembic. That was a lot cheaper. And that included buying a whole bunch of wood working machines!

I was just checking out that online calculator... adding series II electronics to the Clarke Deluxe bass will cost you $6400.00! Or you can slum it with the Series I electronics for a mere $5700.00.

[spode master]

I guess I shouldn't say everything is the highest quality, I wasn't to impressed with the Op amps used in my aniversary electronics but everything else was very nice.

I forgot the model but it was a Texas insturment model that as I recall wasn't designed to be used with such a low voltage supply, as 1 9V battery. But It seems to work.

I would expect any carbon film resistors would be in the power supply voltage divider, and not in the signal path.

But I do think much of the electronics cost, is directly effected by, low volume, and hand assembled in the US. And yes name recognition, they were the first, after market bass pickup pre amp company as I understand it.

You could build a lot of the circuits your self for much cheaper, but good luck trying to get some of those pots.

I built my own version of an alembic Pre.

I have a schematic for a variable low pass filter with a continuously variable q that perform similarly to the series 2 filters.

I bought a couple of Alembic guitar pickups for ~ 120$ a piece and put them in my SG-Z with the filter circuit.

I love the openness of those pickups, and with the filter I can really get a wide range of tones out of the guitar.

I love my Alembic, but I didn't buy it, it was a gift from my father who gained an inheritance (I'm not worthy). It also weighs like 20lbs, which sucks if you rehearse 3 hours with it.