Antquty II's-Anyone find them too bottom heavy? NJ4's maybe?

[chiplexic]

I'm looking for a set of pickups to put into a Classic 60's Jazz. I've read the Smash thread many times. And although the Antiquity II reviews sound a lot like what I want, some of the comments give me reason to pause.

Things I want in a Jazz pickup set:

1- I want a present bottom but not completely lacking low end definition at live,club volume or any volume for that matter. Can the Antiquity II's do this?

2 - I like vintage, not super modern and zingy. Smooth highs maybe even what some might call subdued/restrained highs. What confusing here is many have commented that Fenders Classic and Custom Shop pickups have more top end than they expected from a supposed Vintage voiced pickup.
Digressing: But people who have owned older Jazzes (dear I say older guys) have stated in the past that 60's basses did have that present high end when newer and time decay of the magnets are what we here today and think that's vintage. Funny thing is when you listen to recordings and live stuff of John Paul Jones or Noel Redding you don't hear much high end. But that is probably a product of the recording process and live speaker cabs 18" speakers.

So the comments that have me hesitant toward Antiquity II's are:
"Not really vintage-y if that's your bag .. more like vintage++ so if you're after a big badass tone then these do the job very well. With good flats, and especially with a series option, you can out-P a P bass easily with these. I'm not saying they sound "exactly like" a P, I'm saying they sound bigger and badder ... almost too much so at times. Not overly defined in a live mix though, but if you want a big medicine ball bottom end then these are "it".

AND

"...while the II are almost comically phat."

Now I almost think the Nordstrand NJ4's would fit the bill since they are said to have good bottom and even response across the tone spectrum. But the comment that they don't break up like a "rotting vintage .." and particularly "the highs are glassy (almost modern but still with an underlying fundamental) " also have me hesitant. Glassy but almost modern? I'm confused. I guess the "rotting breakup" I could give up since, as Smash says, in a live mix you'll never hear the difference anyway. Hell, maybe string selection and amp settings could tame the glassy highs that I'm affraid of too?
Another thought for what I'm after - 5% Over wound Lindy Fralins ?? Which would produce some added bottom and tamed down highs ?
Well any Input based on what I've put out there is appreciated !

[Fender32]

Well, you said "any input", so please forgive me if this is a little off-centre .

I have been down the SD Antiquity II road with my two of my P Basses and ended up removing them from both and using a Nordstrand NP4 and the original Fender pickup instead .

Why? Well, as SMASH discovered with the Jazz Bass version, they are so bottom heavy, that they tend to drown out most of the mid-range punch (which is vital to a good P Bass tone, IMHO). I found that the Antiquity II's actually sounded more like "scooped without much top end", than "punchy with a bit of extra bottom-end", if that makes sense to anyone else !?

With the Nordstrand, you can boost the low frequencies on the amp and still get that mid-range punch, whereas the SD just sounded "boomy" when I tried that. Incidentally, one of the P Basses that I tried the SD in was ash & maple and the other was alder & rosewood - the Antiquity worked slightly better in the alder & rosewood P Bass, but was a bit of a disaster in the '70s heavy ash/maple neck bass (horrible, hollow sound) .

From what I've read, the Jazz Bass pickups from each of these companies seem to share similar tonal biases to their P Bass cousins, so there may be some relevance in my comments.

Hope this helps .

[spc]

Jason Lollar single coils are amazing...
Love the high end on these...very pleasing and not harsh. He's very accessible, you could probably talk to him before you order a set, maybe customize them a bit...though I went with his "regular" single coils (I have them in a fretted and a fretless). He is here: http://www.lollarguitars.com/
I've been reading some great things about Nordstrands as well...I'd like to try a set of the nj4se...split coil humcancelling...
and I'm quoting here from Nordstrands web site---http://www.nordstrandpickups.com/

"They use the same hand wound pattern found on our NJ4's but with a finer wire called 43 gauge enamel. The natural character of this design is to have a more pronounced lower midrange, and a slightly muted high end. This makes them exceptionally suited to fingerstyle players who are going for a solo bridge pickup sound with good "bark" and "heft." They are also totally humcancelling, and great for commonly noisy live situations."

Good luck!


shawn

[chiplexic]

FENDER32... Thanks that does help and those issues are a lot of what I am affraid of.

[GeneralElectric]

I vote Lindy Fralins stock windings, if you're unhappy, you can send them back for additional windings.

[pin_head_47]

Have you checked out the clips at basstasters yet? They don't have the Antiquities but they do have both versions of the Nordstrand Jazz pups, so you can get a general idea of how they sound.

[JustOpenYourMind]

If I compare the NJ4 I put in my jazz bass to the stock usa electronics, they actually have a lot less high than stock. They have more heft and better mids but definatly have less highs.

You can do that comaprison on basstasters, if you listen to the 60's fender pickups and the nj4

[spc]

Originally Posted by GeneralElectric

I vote Lindy Fralins stock windings, if you're unhappy, you can send them back for additional windings.

Not to disrespect your opinion GeneralElectric, but the op said:

"2 - I like vintage, not super modern and zingy. Smooth highs maybe even what some might call subdued/restrained highs."

My experience with the 2 sets of Lindy Fralin singles I had were that the highs were anything but smooth and restrained. For me, I thought they sounded warm and fat on the bottom end, but I hated the high end...I thought they sounded good but not for me, if that makes sense.


And Chiplexic (op), I'm not sure what you are after to be honest... And I quote-

" But the comment that they don't break up like a "rotting vintage .." and particularly "the highs are glassy (almost modern but still with an underlying fundamental) " also have me hesitant. Glassy but almost modern? I'm confused. I guess the "rotting breakup" I could give up since, as Smash says, in a live mix you'll never hear the difference anyway. Hell, maybe string selection and amp settings could tame the glassy highs that I'm affraid of too?
Another thought for what I'm after - 5% Over wound Lindy Fralins ?? Which would produce some added bottom and tamed down highs ? "

I'm not sure what rotting breakup is, but to me, that sounds like the opposite of "tamed down". And would overwinding a pickup produce added bottom and tamed down highs? I didn't know that. but if that's the case, maybe having some Fralins overwound would be a good idea. But I still think you might want to check out a pickup that has that" less subdued highs" as a characteristic already, ya know what I mean? Maybe some Bart 9j's? tHose seem to have a pretty muted high end to my ears (or at least very pleasing and not harsh).
You're going to get a lot of opinions here, with a lot of us recommending the pickups we like...I think you just need to find something that sounds like they might be in the ballpark of what you're after, and check 'em out! Then you can recommend what you like to the rest of us!

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by chiplexic

FENDER32... Thanks that does help and those issues are a lot of what I am affraid of.

Glad to hear it .

I should add that I have a pair of Nordstrand NJ4SE's in my graphite-necked custom Jazz Bass and am very happy with the tone (although they're marketed as "noiseless" pickups, mine hum exactly as loudly as the original pickups in my '76 Fender Jazz ). It's a well balanced sound and they are suprisingly "deep" sounding when recorded.

Here's a couple of very different sound clips for you, for what it's worth, but remember that this bass isn't a standard, wooden Fender, so it's not a true representation of what to expect : Also, you really need headphones, or a good set of speakers to hear the bass properly in these clips. OK, enough excuses .....

"Over the Rainbow" (Recorded direct to the PC soundcard with all volume and tone controls full up and no effects or equalization)

"I Wish" (First half recorded direct with a slight bias towards the rear pickup. Second half recorded through Sadowsky floor preamp unit, with about 50% bass and treble boost, IIRC)



Here's the bass in question, BTW :

[GeneralElectric]

Originally Posted by spc

Not to disrespect your opinion GeneralElectric, but the op said:

"2 - I like vintage, not super modern and zingy. Smooth highs maybe even what some might call subdued/restrained highs."

My experience with the 2 sets of Lindy Fralin singles I had were that the highs were anything but smooth and restrained. For me, I thought they sounded warm and fat on the bottom end, but I hated the high end...I thought they sounded good but not for me, if that makes sense.

No disrespect taken. I love vintage tone, and I had a CIJ 75 Jazz Reissue. I ended up dropping in a set of Fralins (stock winding) with a set of LaBella nylon wrapped flats through a SVT-3PRO. I ended up really like the tone, though when I got a second jazz (MIJ 62 RI) I ended up dropping in a set of overwounds for flavor and had good results as well.

I ended up trading both of the Jazzes to a friend of mine who "had to have them" in exchange for a fretless P-bass and a Brassmaster.

[chiplexic]

Originally Posted by spc

And Chiplexic (op), I'm not sure what you are after to be honest... And I quote-

" But the comment that they don't break up like a "rotting vintage .." and particularly "the highs are glassy (almost modern but still with an underlying fundamental) " also have me hesitant. Glassy but almost modern? I'm confused. I guess the "rotting breakup" I could give up since, as Smash says, in a live mix you'll never hear the difference anyway. Hell, maybe string selection and amp settings could tame the glassy highs that I'm affraid of too?
Another thought for what I'm after - 5% Over wound Lindy Fralins ?? Which would produce some added bottom and tamed down highs ? "

I'm not sure what rotting breakup is, but to me, that sounds like the opposite of "tamed down". And would overwinding a pickup produce added bottom and tamed down highs? I didn't know that. but if that's the case, maybe having some Fralins overwound would be a good idea. But I still think you might want to check out a pickup that has that" less subdued highs" as a characteristic already, ya know what I mean? Maybe some Bart 9j's? tHose seem to have a pretty muted high end to my ears (or at least very pleasing and not harsh).
You're going to get a lot of opinions here, with a lot of us recommending the pickups we like...I think you just need to find something that sounds like they might be in the ballpark of what you're after, and check 'em out! Then you can recommend what you like to the rest of us!

I can definately see where I confuse things,descriptions are subjective for sure.. The "rotten break up" term is from Smash's review . And I actually know what he's getting at with the term. I believe you can have the high end break up when you dig into the string (it's subtle) but still have a pickup that is tame on the high end in general. To me they're two different qualities.
Over winding does increase the bottom and tame the top. But your right I should probably just go with a model that is known for what I want from the get go instead of trying to create it with alteration.

[spc]

Based on that version of rotten breakup, if that's what you like, you may actually dig the Fralins...
That's a pretty good description of what the top end sounded like to me...that breakup is something that I can't stand in my sound, so no surprise that I dig Bart 9j's.
Before I ordered my first set of Lollars, I talked to Jason Lollar on the phone about my likes and dislikes. We talked specifically about the Fralins having a "snarly" top end (maybe not that exact word, but I gave him my impressions of the Fralins- way too sizzly or trebley or what have you) They are warm though, and have a cool bottom end. The breakup you describe is exactly the reason I didn't like them...especially in the studio. When I heard some playback, oh boy, they were gone the next week. Jason Lollar's stock set goes for his version of old 60's pickup, scatterwound or whatever so they don't have that upper treble thing.



shawn

[()smoke()]

i want to second the opinion of spc on the lollars...i currently use a set in a fretless j and expect a second set tomorrow for my fetted j...they are full and warm, with deep lows that retain definition, and the upper end is very musical and not at all harsh in my bass

he winds a heck of a j pickup, imo

[maurilio]

Originally Posted by Fender32

Glad to hear it .

I should add that I have a pair of Nordstrand NJ4SE's in my graphite-necked custom Jazz Bass and am very happy with the tone (although they're marketed as "noiseless" pickups, mine hum exactly as loudly as the original pickups in my '76 Fender Jazz ). It's a well balanced sound and they are suprisingly "deep" sounding when recorded.

are you sure they are SE? It's impossible you have hum with the Nord SE or SV..... It has to be something else, or you got the NJ (single coil).
Is there any way you could take a pic?

Check and let me know

M

[koobie]

Have you tried the basic DiMarzio J set? The ones in my J-style Lull seem pretty close to the sound you're describing. But this is my first real J, so I don't have a lot to go by for comparison.

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by maurilio

are you sure they are SE? It's impossible you have hum with the Nord SE or SV..... It has to be something else, or you got the NJ (single coil).
Is there any way you could take a pic?

Check and let me know

M

Yep, they're SE's alright ..





Then again, I built the bass up myself, so I guess I could have made some kind of wiring/shielding error.

I keep meaning to PM Carey Nordstrand and ask him for some advice - perhaps I'll do that now ....

[maurilio]

Originally Posted by Fender32

Then again, I built the bass up myself, so I guess I could have made some kind of wiring/shielding error.

I keep meaning to PM Carey Nordstrand and ask him for some advice - perhaps I'll do that now ....

I see they don't have the ground wire for the pole pieces.... if you are sure the bridge is grounded correctly and there's no mistake on the wiring, call Carey. Not now, it's Sunday

M

[lovemybasses]

oh my... I ordered SD antq for my P bass ( which is alder/maple ) wanting big thump, bottom without loosing midrange which are essential for the P and for my tastes - now I read that I could be very disappointed. huh...sadly. I will install them tomorrow all hoping you guys dont know what you're talking about!

[62bass]

Originally Posted by lovemybasses

oh my... I ordered SD antq for my P bass ( which is alder/maple ) wanting big thump, bottom without loosing midrange which are essential for the P and for my tastes - now I read that I could be very disappointed. huh...sadly. I will install them tomorrow all hoping you guys dont know what you're talking about!

You'll like them. Play around with the pickup height adjustments before you make any rash decision.

Also, take other persons descriptions of pickup sound with a grain of salt. I've heard some pretty wild descriptions of the pickups in my basses which are way off the mark and sound nothing at all like my basses.

[lovemybasses]

Originally Posted by 62bass

You'll like them. Play around with the pickup height adjustments before you make any rash decision.

Also, take other persons descriptions of pickup sound with a grain of salt. I've heard some pretty wild descriptions of the pickups in my basses which are way off the mark and sound nothing at all like my basses.

thanx man. sure, I investigate before placed my order at bestbassgear. Nords are bit harsh in my ears ( I got them on my jazz ) so I decided to go for something more traditional and warm, especially for alder/maple P bass . SD really seems like a real deal. would be funny company like them selling Pups like described at this thread.