Any 4 band EQ or multiple mid 3 bands for a Smith vibe?

spade2you · #1 05-17-2009, 07:57 AM

After finding out that Kent Armstrong makes Ken Smith pickups, I've been itching to order a fanned fret 6 string from Cliff Bordwell. If all else fails, I could always order a pre-amp from Ken Smith.

I kind of wonder about getting a Cirrus pre-amp (w/mid sweep) since they have an overall Smith-ish vibe, but not sure how well the Armstrong pickups would sound like the Smith through a Cirrus pre-amp.

I have tried e-mailing HAZ, but no replies.

Edit: I'm aware that the HAZ has a bunch of various frequencies in the switch box, but I'm looking for something a bit quicker on the fly.

ehque · #2 05-18-2009, 02:42 AM

Audere preamps can have up to 4 bands of EQ, were you looking for that?

spade2you · #3 05-18-2009, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehque

Audere preamps can have up to 4 bands of EQ, were you looking for that?

I wouldn't rule out Audere. In the end, it can be a crap shoot trying to figure out what happens when you mix X pickups with Y pre-amp. I have an Audere 4 band on order with a CB loaded with Nordstrand DCs. I might end up going with the HAZ 3 band to keep it somewhat authentic to the Smith sound, but would really prefer having a little more mid control.

spade2you · #4 05-20-2009, 07:13 AM

Bump?

Erik the Red · #5 05-20-2009, 10:10 AM

Man i don't understand why more active basses don't have sweepable mids... it's the ultimate EQ tweek, which is the whole point of active as far as i can tell. All the EQ power of an amp, on your bass. I want it

spade2you · #6 05-23-2009, 06:55 AM

Bump?? No rush or anything, but this is basically one of the last details of this upcoming bass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik the Red

Man i don't understand why more active basses don't have sweepable mids... it's the ultimate EQ tweek, which is the whole point of active as far as i can tell. All the EQ power of an amp, on your bass. I want it

Agreed.

cybersnyder · #7 05-23-2009, 02:43 PM

You're looking for Smith-ish and Smith sells preamps.... I think you've already found your solution. I'm sure that the Smith preamps are not cheap, but going through two or three other preamps on a quest for a tone won't be any cheaper.

Just an opinion...

spade2you · #8 05-23-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

You're looking for Smith-ish and Smith sells preamps.... I think you've already found your solution. I'm sure that the Smith preamps are not cheap, but going through two or three other preamps on a quest for a tone won't be any cheaper.

Just an opinion...

True and this is a definite possibility. My last 2 basses with Bart pre-amps had multiple mids and a few of my Peaveys have sweepable mids. IMHO, having low and high mids available on a pre-amp really opens up the tone and expands the versatility a lot, at least in my experiences.

I'm certainly not against the Smith pre-amp, but if there's something out there with more on the fly mid control, I'd probably be a little happier.

Shiveringbass · #9 05-24-2009, 02:25 PM

Hello,

Check at

www.noll-electronic.de

That german company makes some highends preamps with 4 bands, parametrics mids or even 3 parametrics band.

hope it helps

Skelf · #10 05-24-2009, 02:36 PM

Have a look at the East single pot modules. As far as I know you could have a bass two mids and a treble all allow you to set the frequencies that the pot works over. This would allow a pretty flexible system. You would have to check with John to get the full details.

Alan

TimmyP · #11 05-24-2009, 03:21 PM

Onboard bass EQ can be great, unless you are running direct through the PA. The onboard bass EQ that sounds great through your stage rig may sound terrible DI'd through the PA. And as IME getting the best sound always involves the use of a DI......

spade2you · #12 05-27-2009, 06:00 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. It looks like I have a few options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skelf

Have a look at the East single pot modules. As far as I know you could have a bass two mids and a treble all allow you to set the frequencies that the pot works over. This would allow a pretty flexible system. You would have to check with John to get the full details.

Alan

BTW, any idea if there's a 4 band that will work with your config? Mike Z lives in the same city as me, so sometimes we hang out, drink beer, and mess around with custom basses. I can't remember when he'll be getting his ACG, but I recall it being in the next couple of months or so. I'm very eager to hear the pre-amp and I'm sure it will be amazing. I'm also pretty sure I'll get weak and want to order one.

NickyBass · #13 05-27-2009, 06:11 AM

I think that the Smith sound is more in the pickups and construction than the preamp. Every Smith that I've played still had that 'Smith' sound even in passive mode. Of course, I always leave onboard EQ set flat.

Skelf · #14 05-27-2009, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spade2you

Thanks for the suggestions. It looks like I have a few options.

BTW, any idea if there's a 4 band that will work with your config? Mike Z lives in the same city as me, so sometimes we hang out, drink beer, and mess around with custom basses. I can't remember when he'll be getting his ACG, but I recall it being in the next couple of months or so. I'm very eager to hear the pre-amp and I'm sure it will be amazing. I'm also pretty sure I'll get weak and want to order one.

Sorry not following you there what do you mean with my configuration.

Mike's bass will be more than a couple of months away I have just sorted out the trussrod and carbon for the neck with finger board being glued on tomorrow.

Alan

spade2you · #15 05-27-2009, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skelf

Sorry not following you there what do you mean with my configuration.

Mike's bass will be more than a couple of months away I have just sorted out the trussrod and carbon for the neck with finger board being glued on tomorrow.

Alan

I was wondering if your electronics package could be set up to allow for a 4 band EQ. That's not to say that it would need it, but it would be a kinda cool addition if it were possible.

Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to checking it out when it's done. I've got a few he'll check out as well.

Skelf · #16 05-27-2009, 08:10 AM

Right I see what you mean. My own pre-amp is filter based so as such does not work the same way a 4 band EQ works. In some areas it can achieve things that are just not possible or certainly easy on a standard cut/boost EQ. Conversely it is easier to do some things on a cut/boost EQ. The low-pass filter per pickup gives a great deal of variety in the sound and in conjunction with the blend is a very powerful tool. The pre-amp has been changed slightly as well there is now a larger over lap between the low-pass and the high pass filters. The low-pass now go up higher and the high pass lower. So it is possible to EQ certain areas with both or if you use one there is a subtle difference in sound between EQ from the low-pass and EQ from the high-pass. Wither this would allow you to get what you are looking for it is hard for me to say try Mike's when he gets it would be the only sure fire way of knowing.

Alan

spade2you · #17 05-27-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickyBass

I think that the Smith sound is more in the pickups and construction than the preamp. Every Smith that I've played still had that 'Smith' sound even in passive mode. Of course, I always leave onboard EQ set flat.

You're probably right. I haven't played one in so long that dang near anything might fool me.

Getting the pickups won't be difficult at all. Construction wise, the neck will be very different. I'm planning on getting a little more attack back by utilizing a very dense tone block and lighter wings to keep the overall weight decent.

Basically I'm looking to be relatively close, sound wise. I rarely find tones I don't like. Besides, part of my strategy of a 3-4 band EQ is insurance to EQ the tone to my liking if I feel that it's too much in certain areas or not enough in others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skelf

Right I see what you mean. My own pre-amp is filter based so as such does not work the same way a 4 band EQ works. In some areas it can achieve things that are just not possible or certainly easy on a standard cut/boost EQ. Conversely it is easier to do some things on a cut/boost EQ. The low-pass filter per pickup gives a great deal of variety in the sound and in conjunction with the blend is a very powerful tool. The pre-amp has been changed slightly as well there is now a larger over lap between the low-pass and the high pass filters. The low-pass now go up higher and the high pass lower. So it is possible to EQ certain areas with both or if you use one there is a subtle difference in sound between EQ from the low-pass and EQ from the high-pass. Wither this would allow you to get what you are looking for it is hard for me to say try Mike's when he gets it would be the only sure fire way of knowing.

Alan

Very true. I guess I just enjoy being able to have the widest possible array of tones available at my fingertips. I'm perhaps a little obsessed with overall versatility...even though I have a bunch of basses. Nobody ever accused me of being very bright.

emjazz · #18 05-27-2009, 11:10 AM

You need a filter preamp fed into a 4 band eq....and 4 pickups....and a removable fingerboard for different tonal choices....

In all seriousness, what do you use your onboard eq for that your amp can't do in a live situation? Maybe what you really need is a new amp.

What I use my ACG filter pre for is to dial in my own sound no matter what room I'm in or rig I'm playing through. I find that it works much better than a traditional preamp.

What is it that you need from a preamp?

....and I agree with Nickybass, it's the pickups and construction (and pickup placement) that gives you the Smith sound. Get the pickups from Kent and then pick your favorite preamp.

NickyBass · #19 05-27-2009, 12:04 PM

How close to the Smith sound are you looking to get? I'm sure that if a builder follows a few key construction details, you can get close. Will Kent make the Smith pickups on a custom order basis? I would imagine that you want them to be angled, so you couldn't use the stock Smith pickups.

I agree with Andy that the 4 band filter preamp would be overkill. Though, I do know that you aren't one to follow the conventional rules.

It could be interesting, albeit completely mind boggling if I had to use it. The one thing to consider, though, is that, while it will give you a myriad of options, many of those options will take you away from the Smith vibe that you're looking for.

spade2you · #20 05-27-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emjazz

You need a filter preamp fed into a 4 band eq....and 4 pickups....and a removable fingerboard for different tonal choices....

In all seriousness, what do you use your onboard eq for that your amp can't do in a live situation? Maybe what you really need is a new amp.

What I use my ACG filter pre for is to dial in my own sound no matter what room I'm in or rig I'm playing through. I find that it works much better than a traditional preamp.

What is it that you need from a preamp?

....and I agree with Nickybass, it's the pickups and construction (and pickup placement) that gives you the Smith sound. Get the pickups from Kent and then pick your favorite preamp.

I guess my use of preamps may be a bit odd. Back in the day, I'd generally boost the bass but only when soloing and tapping.

A couple years back, I started using Rob Allen basses which have a much stronger signal than most traditional active basses. I used to boost the EQ a bit to get a little more juice from my other basses and happened to enjoy that tone a little more than the flat tone.

On my Conklin, the piezo sounded great but the mags sounded...eh. It wasn't their fault since I told them exactly where I thought they should be. With the Bartolini pre-amp, I was able to dial in a tone I really enjoyed.

Then I snagged my CB with Bart CB pickups and pre-amp. I learned that I could get a nice Pedulla tone with the EQ flat. With bass+low mid, treb rolled off, and the P pickup, I'd get a very nice thuddy vintage tone. Switch to the bridge J and to high mids and I'd get a very Jaco-esque tone. At this point, I started screwing around with all my basses, including some Peaveys with sweepable mids. Overall, I discovered I really liked the versatility I had and the wider range of tones I could get.

I know it might make sense to change the amp, but the beauty is that I can get the Rob Allen upright tone, Jaco, Jamerson, and a nice Wooten EMG PJ sound, all from the same amp with switching basses or playing with the EQ. I realize that one bass can't do it all, but I find it fun to be able to get various tones out of basses that one shouldn't ordinarily expect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickyBass

How close to the Smith sound are you looking to get? I'm sure that if a builder follows a few key construction details, you can get close. Will Kent make the Smith pickups on a custom order basis? I would imagine that you want them to be angled, so you couldn't use the stock Smith pickups.

I agree with Andy that the 4 band filter preamp would be overkill. Though, I do know that you aren't one to follow the conventional rules.

It could be interesting, albeit completely mind boggling if I had to use it. The one thing to consider, though, is that, while it will give you a myriad of options, many of those options will take you away from the Smith vibe that you're looking for.

Getting Kent's pickups will most likely require a custom length, but Kent indicated that this should be very easy. It will have blades instead of bobbins since it would be a logistical nightmare trying to get bobbins to line up perfectly on angled pickups. I'd most likely get the pickups in the same place, adjusted for the fan.

I've heard the brass nut and truss rod play a big part in the tone, after the pickups. Ken usually also uses dense body woods for the core a lot of the time. I was figuring I'd go with a maple/wenge neck as a personal pref and use some sort of dense tone block and see if it works.

I figure I'll get relatively close and the tone should be similar with the EQ flat.....but only one way to see what kinds of other tones I can get from it, and that is to give it a shot and try something new!