Bartolini 57J-S1 dead spots

Brian Ward · #1 09-02-2011, 05:17 PM

I have a question - I have a Fender MIM 5 string jazz bass, which was modified by a previous owner with Bartolini 57J-S1's and a Bartolini preamp. Everything sounds great on it, but the A string is consistently lower in volume and "beef" compared to the other strings. I took it to my guitar guy, and as we looked at it we found that there were "dead spots" on the pickups - if you bent the A string down toward the D, or the D up toward the A, right over the 'O' in Bartolini, the volume would decrease significantly.
Has anyone else run into this? Any solutions? I thought it was a defective pickup at first, but after I put a new 57S-J1 in there, it did the same thing. I'm not sure what is going on with the pickups, but it is really disorienting to play when all the strings are strong but the A - and it is noticeable on stage and on recordings. Any comments?

Rob22315 · #2 09-03-2011, 05:30 AM

Sounds like the Barts you have are split coil pickups, possibly 6 string, so the split is in the middle although the model number indicates you have pickups designed for a 5 string. If they are used on a 5 string bass, this puts the A string in the gap between the coils. You can test this by tapping gently with a steel tool (screwdriver or allen wrench) along the top of the pickup. You will hear the sound of the metal against the pickup across the surface except where there's a gap between the coils. If your pickups are designed for a 5'er, perhaps they weren't installed properly - not centered under the strings.

I have a BTB675 that has split coil korean barts. The barts are actually designed for 6 strings, not 5 but Ibanez put them on my 5 string BTB from the factory. The A string is a little lower in volume than the other strings but I found I could use a compressor to compensate or just ignore it.

Your best bet, if you want to fix it, is to replace the existing pickups with a set of bladed pickups. If you're lucky, someone has an existing model pickup that will be a drop in replacement. In my case, such a replacement doesn't exist. Send David of SGDlutherie a PM or an email and see if he's got an existing pickup model that would work.

UPDATE - I did a quick check on your model, they are split coil so there's a gap. You could try replacing them with 59 S72 L1/LN1 which are a single coil model and possibly a drop in replacement. That model isn't humbucking so you may get a little noise. Check out the listing for bartolini bass pickups on bestbassgear.

maurilio · #3 09-03-2011, 11:17 AM

bartolini 59 and 57 are the same pup inside.
59 is for 'standard' size 5 strings basses
57 is for fender sized pups
Splits should work without problem…theoretically!
Your (OP) choice is right. Still, it sounds like something is definitely wrong….. could we see a couple of pics?
Does it happen on both neck and bridge pup?
Did you swap both pickups?

M

Rob22315 · #4 09-03-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maurilio

bartolini 59 and 57 are the same pup inside.
59 is for 'standard' size 5 strings basses
57 is for fender sized pups
Splits should work without problem…theoretically!
Your (OP) choice is right. Still, it sounds like something is definitely wrong….. could we see a couple of pics?
Does it happen on both neck and bridge pup?
Did you swap both pickups?

M

Then you disagree with the write-up on bestbassgear - "59 S72 L1/LN1Single Coil, low noise pickup. A good choice for basses with the long bridge/long neck pickup sizes that have narrow string spacing."

SGD Lutherie · #5 09-03-2011, 11:33 AM

Are you sure these are the Bartolini 57J-S1s? It sounds like you have the 4 string version.

The 4 string split pickup has the split between the D and A strings. The 5 string pickup is not the same on the inside, and one coil is longer. The split is between the E and A strings.

Therefore when using the 4 string pickup on a 5 string, the A string falls over the gap.

Note that at the Barolini site they use the same illustration for the 5 string version. But that's not what's in the pickup.

maurilio · #6 09-03-2011, 12:10 PM

I just realized that the bass is a MIM! pictures,please.
MIM fender have been installing different sized pups throughout the years.
As SGD is saying, if you have a '4' strings sized pup (3.73") you might have a wrong set….

Can you take a pic of the bass and the bottom of the pup (name on the back)?

M

SGD Lutherie · #7 09-03-2011, 01:30 PM

This is precisely why I haven't offered split coil pickups. They are tricky to match up with basses with uneven amounts of strings.

So I use blades that work with any number of strings and spacings.

Doug Parent · #8 09-03-2011, 01:34 PM

I had the same problem with some splits from Bart, although I have another set in another bass with no problem, although the model # may be different. These were 5 string Fender width spec. Bartolini should remedy this, it's a design error for sure.

Sorry to hear.

Rano Bass · #9 09-03-2011, 05:32 PM

I use the 59 J1 set on a MIM deluxe 5 and have no problems with them.

Brian Ward · #10 09-04-2011, 07:26 PM

Ok, to start, I have done the screwdriver tapping test, and it confirmed that there is a gap between the magnets in the pickup. Both pickups (and the 3rd one that I put in in an attempt to fix the "problem") have the same problem.
I am sure that they are not the 4 string variety - I've checked. I have the 5 String version of the pickups.
I didn't want to think it was a design flaw, but I couldn't imagine another bass that wouldn't have this problem with the break between the magnets where it is. Pics coming.

Brian Ward · #11 09-04-2011, 07:45 PM

More pics

gravesbass · #12 09-04-2011, 07:46 PM

I have the same issue with my custom Warwick Special Edition 5 string and Bart 59J1 set. It's a 2 sized set (91mm @ neck and 95mm @ bridge) The bridge pup is fine volume wise for all strings. The neck pup (91mm) and the D string volume is lower than the rest. If you reverse the pickup, its on the E side. I think this is where its spilt for this particular pup. The pic on the Bart website shows the split in the middle (A string). This is not where I am hearing the issue. I tried moving the bridge saddle 1/2mm's and the volume went to near the same output as the other strings. I believe this might be a design flaw if you have a 17mm string spacing or Warwick bass. This does not occur with the 59 set I have on my Thumb. They are both a 95mm set.

Doug Parent · #13 09-04-2011, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rano Bass

I use the 59 J1 set on a MIM deluxe 5 and have no problems with them.

I have 57's and they are fine. The ones I had before I do not recall the model number. I got them from Best Bass Gear.com and had to return them. Brian (the previous owner) handled the return promptly.

gravesbass · #14 09-04-2011, 07:55 PM

bestbassgear posted this on their site a while back and its dead on. Read the "Note" below:

General Description - 59J1 L1\LN1 59J1 L\S 57J1 L\S 59 S72 L1/LN1
These are split coil hum-cancelling designs. They have bright Neck tone and deep Bridge tone. These pickups are wound to yield much more "growl" from the Bridge pickup. They are very similar in tone to the old Bartolini 94J 4 string pickups, just ever so slighlty brighter at the bridge. Tonally, these have stronger lows and low mids than the typical "vintage" tone.

*Note: String spacing over the neck pickup should be 64mm or larger. If not, there may be dropout on the D string. If your string spacing is less than 64mm, consider using a single coil pickup.

Doug Parent · #15 09-04-2011, 08:07 PM

The problem is, this pickup only fits Fender 5 string basses (which have 18 mm string spacing.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravesbass

bestbassgear posted this on their site a while back and its dead on. Read the "Note" below:

General Description - 59J1 L1\LN1 59J1 L\S 57J1 L\S 59 S72 L1/LN1
These are split coil hum-cancelling designs. They have bright Neck tone and deep Bridge tone. These pickups are wound to yield much more "growl" from the Bridge pickup. They are very similar in tone to the old Bartolini 94J 4 string pickups, just ever so slighlty brighter at the bridge. Tonally, these have stronger lows and low mids than the typical "vintage" tone.

*Note: String spacing over the neck pickup should be 64mm or larger. If not, there may be dropout on the D string. If your string spacing is less than 64mm, consider using a single coil pickup.

Brian Ward · #16 09-04-2011, 08:16 PM

I'll have to measure the string spacing on the bass and see what it is. BTW, thanks all for your replies. I couldn't figure out what the deal was.

Doug Parent · #17 09-04-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ward

I'll have to measure the string spacing on the bass and see what it is. BTW, thanks all for your replies. I couldn't figure out what the deal was.

Your Fender MIM V is 18 mm with 1.81 at the nut.

SGD Lutherie · #18 09-05-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravesbass

*Note: String spacing over the neck pickup should be 64mm or larger. If not, there may be dropout on the D string. If your string spacing is less than 64mm, consider using a single coil pickup.

64mm divided by 4 is 16mm. So if the Fender MIM V is 18 mm, that's 74mm, which is larger than 64mm.

Tewest86 · #19 10-28-2011, 08:53 AM

The MIM ss is not 18 mm like the MIA 5 string. That's why your A is weak. The MIM is more like 17-17.5 at the bridge. The nut may be the same but the bridge is different. That's why the MIA and MIM use a different size pickguard. If you put the 57's in a MIA the magnets line up just right.