Bartolini vs Nordstrand 3 band preamp

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by NelsonNelson

Thanks modern growl, incredible reply with little biased information and great facts. I have a bartolini 2 band in my Warwick thats nice but I am jus wanting the "best" and have no preference when it comes to brands. I love my Aguilar TLC and use a GK amp! I don't get hung up on brands. I think I'll go with the Nordstrand. Thanks Pitter Patterns I think I am gonna use your suggestion for the greater flexibility the 3b-5b offers too.

The question is if the Bart sounds nice, why change it? You may install the Nordie and completely not like it. There is no 'best' preamp in my opinion. They're all great preamps.

[Musiclogic]

If you are wanting the "best" preamp, you might be better served looking at an East or a Noll preamp. Nordy, Bart, Aggie, Audere, SD, Glock, DeLano, etc. Are all good pre's, but they all have weak points, There is no perfect. But there are pre's that do excel. While I prefer Audere from the US market, The Noll pre's are the best I have found. Having used all of the above in many instruments that have visited my shop, Noll is the benchmark.

[DWBass]

What's the price points on the Noll preamps? Website has no pricing. Any US dealers?

[B String]

Originally Posted by DWBass

The question is if the Bart sounds nice, why change it? You may install the Nordie and completely not like it. There is no 'best' preamp in my opinion. They're all great preamps.

Big +1. The best is not always the best. I've gone back to the stock Fender preamp in my mia dlx J V, even though the Nordy is about a hundred times better. I get more of the sound I hear in my head with the Fender pre. I have another bass that's very focused and articulate but needs more big lows and extended highs. The Aggie works great. Not the "best" preamp but it gives me the musical tone I need.

The very best components do not necessarily make the best sounding preamp. Figure out what you're looking for, be it bigger deeper lows, or transparency, or a tighter sound, etc. Then use the preamp specs as a starting point.

[smeet]

It's all so subjective. ModernGrowl is spot on in his assessment, as is B string.

For me:
The Nordstrand is as close to transparent as I have found, while being very musical. The Bart is nice, but very voiced to the warm side, great for that smooth jazz tone, as the highs are very high, and the lows are very low. The Audere is transparent but I don't care for the overall sound, and there is no passive mode. The Aguilar is VERY aggressive and the low end is hard to control. The East jazz preamps are scooped and hifi sounding, too hyper modern for me.

But you might hear it differently.

[NelsonNelson]

I am replacing the stock Carvin preamp on my Bunny Brunell bass that has Wilde Pickups, the jazz ones by Bill Lawrence. I want a jazzy sound but the alder body already gives me that. So I was leanin towards a transparent preamp versus the warm Bartolini sound.

[NelsonNelson]

The pickups are brand new but the preamp is 10+ years old. Sorry if that was confusing before. I think really the sound difference between the two will be so trivial in the end. I am leaning towards the Nordstrand primarily just for a really natural sound that's not warmed up or anything and is a tad different than my Corvette because it has the Bartolini 2 band and WEC stock jazz pickups and has tons of growl.

[Modern Growl]

Originally Posted by NelsonNelson

I am replacing the stock Carvin preamp on my Bunny Brunell bass that has Wilde Pickups, the jazz ones by Bill Lawrence. I want a jazzy sound but the alder body already gives me that. So I was leanin towards a transparent preamp versus the warm Bartolini sound.

If you want a "warm Bartolini sound", I guess you mean rolled off high's?

The Nordstarnd comes with both a treble cut & passive tone roll off so you can CONTROL the high end cut off instead of having that decision made for you by Bartolini.

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by Modern Growl

If you want a "warm Bartolini sound", I guess you mean rolled off high's?

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll have to record a video. Both my Lakland and Fender Jazz have quite enough highs and can get nice and glassy if needed! Like I said, it depends on what pickups are mated to the preamps hence the assumption that Barts are dark sounding with rolled off highs. A lot of Bart equipped basses tend to use the 'Dark' pickups (with rolled off highs). I have Classic Series Single Coil 'Brights' in my Fender Jazz and Nordie Big Splits in my Lakland. I can get as high, bright and glassy as any bass out there.

[smeet]

Bartolinis (preamps and especially pickups) traditionally have a big hump in the low midrange. They do have lots of highs, and can get plenty glassy, but they don't have much low treble, just lots of high treble. The lack of low treble (gank?) gives it that "warm" sound.

[azzyrazzy]

Originally Posted by smeet

Bartolinis (preamps and especially pickups) traditionally have a big hump in the low midrange. They do have lots of highs, and can get plenty glassy, but they don't have much low treble, just lots of high treble. The lack of low treble (gank?) gives it that "warm" sound.

The newer Classic Bass series is more balanced. Great sounding, and with the Bartolini preamp too it's AMAZING

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by azzyrazzy

The newer Classic Bass series is more balanced. Great sounding, and with the Bartolini preamp too it's AMAZING

[NelsonNelson]

What pre do you have azzy?

[NelsonNelson]

So....Mr.DW I can assume that the 5.2 pre is probably as balanced as the Nordy and the warmth thing really is from particular pickups? I am pretty new to all this. Because my old pickups were very Bart sounding mellow and very dark like the older Bart's I've heard but the new J45's I have are the total opposite. Clean precise and almost modern sounding.

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by NelsonNelson

So....Mr.DW I can assume that the 5.2 pre is probably as balanced as the Nordy and the warmth thing really is from particular pickups? I am pretty new to all this. Because my old pickups were very Bart sounding mellow and very dark like the older Bart's I've heard but the new J45's I have are the total opposite. Clean precise and almost modern sounding.

IMHO, yes. Others may disagree but this has been my experience! If folks heard my Fender Jazz, they would never know it's all Bartolini. I have been experimenting with different pickups and preamps for at least 5-6 years now. Granted, zero experience with Nordstrand preamps (pickups only). I'm sure you won't have an issue if you go Nordstrand. I'm just relaying my experience with Bartolini preamps which are MY favorite preamps. Having said that, I have a SBMM SUB Ray4 which I plan to install a Nordstrand preamp and pickup. So I am in no way anti-Nordstrand. I do stand corrected on the Nordie preamp voicing. I may be thinking of another preamp that is voiced like the Aguilars.

[NelsonNelson]

Originally Posted by DWBass

The question is if the Bart sounds nice, why change it? You may install the Nordie and completely not like it. There is no 'best' preamp in my opinion. They're all great preamps.

Yeah I have the NTMB-918 in my Warwick and its perfect.

[Modern Growl]

Originally Posted by NelsonNelson

...I can assume that the 5.2 pre is probably as balanced as the Nordy...

No - they are very different and I wouldn't describe the Bart being "as balanced as the Nordy"... not at all. The Nordstrand is a transparent chameleon. The Bart is flexible, but has a dicernable "baked in voiced".

Nelson - just buy the Nordstrand Preamp already, lol

For the goals you described throughout this thread - It's superior to the Bartolini & Aguilar preamp in every aspect, period, end of story.

I've played all 3 with a range of different pickups. The Nordstrand just has it all (Q widths, db boost/cut range, Freq center points, total overall gain output, transparency (no dicernable "voiced"), etc.... ). It's the newest to the market of the 3, and Carey has taken notes (pro's & con's) from them among others and introduced an OUTSTANDING preamp to the market.

Again - for what you described, the buck stops at the Nordstrand 3b.

This thread could go on with pages of encouragment from various individuals for various preamps. Soon, you'll have to just make a deicsion and buy one. I suggest BestBassGear.com - if you don't like the preamp, they will work with you.

[Aguilar/Dave B.]

Originally Posted by Modern Growl

Wrong, inaccurate information. Facts show the Bartolini to boost cut more at bass & treble.

Bartolini:
A: Bass - 30 HZ (+/-14db)
Mid - 250, 500, 800 Hz (+/-10db)
Treble - 10 KHz (+/-16db)

Nordstrand:
Bass: +/- 12 dB @50Hz-
Mid: +/-12 dB@1K (mid freq selector toggles between 1kHz and 400Hz)
Treble: +/- 12 dB @4KHz

The Nordstrand pre has the most usable, predictable boosting and cutting I've EVER used out of ANY preamp. Unlike the Aguilar where you just slightly boost the bass and get a HUGE boost - the Nordstrand is quite the opposite. You can in fact boost the bass to max and get a great usable tone....

In addition, the Nordstrand Preamp has an overall preamp gain control +/- 10db... yup -10db... so you can actaully voice the preamp to be less hot then your passive pickups. Usefull if you like to have a setting engaged for active that requires some boosting like a "slap setting".

Tone / color observations - the Nordstrand is overall much more transparent too. Going from active/passive - the "color" is minimal... Carey went for the most transparent preamp possible.

Bartolini on the other hand colors tone to be more "warm", choking the high end a bit and overall sounding more compressed. Its deff "voiced" where the Nordstrand is not - quite transparent in fact.

When Carey built his pre, he took a look at the onboard preamp market and looked for a way to perfect it. His preamp is designed similar to the Aguilar, but "fixed" in all the right area's. db boost/cust isn't as drastic. 50hz is TRUE 50hz, not 100hz like the Aguilar. Active/Passive switching is very transparent and subtle... -/+ overall db gain is just genius... the list goes on. It's quite possibly the best preamp on the market - IMO anyway.

Hey, Carey is a friend...we all look around at stuff and say "what would I do differently?" That's part of the fun of designing things. However, allow me to explain how our preamp works, assuming that we are talking about the OBP-3. The bass boost peaks at 40 Hz. However, the bass boost is very broadband. This insures that you don't turn your bass control up and find that only your E string is louder and your instrument is unbalanced.

Hope this is helpful to your understanding of our preamp design.

Happy Holidays,

Dave Boonshoft

[NelsonNelson]

Thanks everyone for the comments and help on this topic. I went with the Nordstrand 3b-5a. Thought about the 5b option but decided against it as I never was a big fan of tone knobs on a passive bass. They just don't "do it" for me. BUT I am happy with my choice, it'll give me a totally different sound I'm hoping than my other bass instead of having them both voiced so similar.

Edit, and I went ahead and got it prewired so hopefully it's not too hard to finish the rest when I get it.

[DWBass]

For $220 it better be the end all of all preamps (well East and Pope pres are more $$).

Please post a sound clip when you get it all sorted out.