Can Q-Tuners be used with active preamps?

[Lo end PUNCH]

I'm very intrigued by these pickups but they're passive which is cool, so are my Barts, but can the Q's be used with active circuitry? A lot of fretless players use them and I've heard some great reveiws. Any users here?

[Verne Andru]

I use them. The output from a Q is about the same as any other passive humbucker [maybe a bit hotter], it just gives you a broader and clearer range of frequencies. I'm not sure I'd match a Q-Tumer with any 9-volt active circuit though - not enough power to get all the headroom you need to get the most out of them.

However I just picked up a Peavey Bassist rack preamp and have been fiddling with various settings. So far it's best for boosting the signal level for going DI into my desk - as you have to do with any passive. It has a cross-over with separate bass and high outputs which I'd love to hook it up to 2 amps - except I don't have 2 amps.

As I'm discovering, there's an art to balancing the type of strings you use, the Q-Tuners pole pieces and overall pickup height to maximize your tone. Once you get them dialed in, active electronics are totally meh!

[Detonation]

I've been using Q-tuners on my Modulus Q6 for about a month now and absolutely love them! The output of the pickups is very high in my experience, don't feel the need for a pre-amp. Besides that any pre-amp will have a narrower frequency response so it's not improving your sound.

[m.oreilly]

erno goes ape if you mention "active" . that said, a "clear" pre or buffer will sound fine (at stage volumes, w/ drums, i don't think you will notice any horrendous tonal perversions with a "flat" set onboard pre, even less a buffer).

[12bass]

Originally Posted by Lo end PUNCH

I'm very intrigued by these pickups but they're passive which is cool, so are my Barts, but can the Q's be used with active circuitry? A lot of fretless players use them and I've heard some great reveiws. Any users here?

Yes, you can use Q-Tuners with a preamp. I have a BL-5 in my Pedulla Rapture 5 with a Bartolini NTBT. The preamp does lose a bit of clarity compared to the passive tone. My sense is that Erno doesn't like the coloration low-power onboard electronics add to his pickups.

[synaesthesia]

Originally Posted by Detonation

Besides that any pre-amp will have a narrower frequency response so it's not improving your sound.

That is not true. A preamp's cut off frequency can be defined at design stage.

[WarriorJoe7]

A Lane Poor preamp would be perfect for this since it has such a wide response. I have some for sale too

[A9X]

Originally Posted by synaesthesia

That is not true. A preamp's cut off frequency can be defined at design stage.

Yep, and I've never seen one yet that had a lower BW than any pickup. Most are considerably more.

Originally Posted by 12bass

My sense is that Erno doesn't like the coloration low-power onboard electronics add to his pickups.

Neither do I, to any pickups.

[Lo end PUNCH]

Thanks all, I've been really contemplating having my next project done with these but I'm just a stickler for active electronics and probably will use the but utilizing a bypass switch.

[DavidMP]

I have a Qtuner with an Audere preamp and it works great.

[bacid]

I'm going to have Q-tuners paired with an ACG preamp in my custom bass that is being built. I would also like it to be active/passive. I think that the filter preamp, would pair nicely with the q-tuners, I'm not 100% positive though, because I have never heard them for myself. I have loads of faith in the Q-tuners and the East ACG preamp, two rights can't make a wrong, right?

[A9X]

I think that'll be a very flexible combo, if the hype for both devices is warranted (never used either). Very Alembic like in principle, and a path I'll follow later myself with Q-tuners and my own filter pre.

[m.oreilly]

Originally Posted by bacid

I'm going to have Q-tuners paired with an ACG preamp in my custom bass that is being built. I would also like it to be active/passive. I think that the filter preamp, would pair nicely with the q-tuners, I'm not 100% positive though, because I have never heard them for myself. I have loads of faith in the Q-tuners and the East ACG preamp, two rights can't make a wrong, right?

i ran that setup for a bit. the acg is fantastic, but the 'tuners were so powerful mag wise, i lost a bunch of string vibration. they are now relegated to a box in the sock drawer...i really did like their "sound" though

[12bass]

Originally Posted by A9X

Yep, and I've never seen one yet that had a lower BW than any pickup. Most are considerably more.

Bandwidth isn't everything....

From all of the op amp swapping that I've done, I've found that measurable differences in frequency response are not really a good indicator of how an op amp sounds. Some of the better sounding op amps I've tried have a bandwidth which is orders of magnitude higher than theoretically necessary for audio. Even with high-performance op amps, compared to passive, I still hear subtle loss of detail with most active preamps.

[A9X]

Originally Posted by 12bass

Bandwidth isn't everything....

From all of the op amp swapping that I've done, I've found that measurable differences in frequency response are not really a good indicator of how an op amp sounds. Some of the better sounding op amps I've tried have a bandwidth which is orders of magnitude higher than theoretically necessary for audio. Even with high-performance op amps, compared to passive, I still hear subtle loss of detail with most active preamps.

My point was that the measured FR of any even mediocre bass pre should happily do 20-20k, unless intentionally band limited.

It also depends if feedback is used. Then BW is more relevant than doing it discrete, zero NFB. In this instance I band limit to keep RFI and other hash out of circuit as much as possible. The loss of detail I've found is often due to limited available voltage swing causing momentary clipping, too short to be perceived as such and, for want of a better expression, bleaches the sound a bit. RFI, class B output stages in opamps and poor design are some of the other culprits in opamp sound in onboard pre's. Some of the new AD and NatSemi devices are superb, almost 'not there' for an opamp and I'm impressed with their performance as I've tried them so far.

I only power offboard on my own designs now, and what is onboard is of at least the same quality as the frontend in any rack pre I've seen - I aim for Avalon 737 levels of quality. However, my situation is unique as the parts cost alone well exceeds what many would willingly pay for a pre. I do this because I would rather not have the loading losses and tonal shifts from passive V/V controls (individually buffered) nor the cable loss at HF. I could also go balanced out and/or use a desk phantom power if I chose; this is the path I feel active basses should head in the future.
Sorry, got off the track a bit.

[12bass]

Interesting stuff, A9X...

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by A9X

I could also go balanced out and/or use a desk phantom power if I chose; this is the path I feel active basses should head in the future.

Bill Lawrence said it was a pity that high impedance "amp" inputs won out in the marketplace way back when, and that basses then ended up with onboard battery-powered preamps later on - when all along superior audio performance could have been had and much as you describe.

[Verne Andru]

I went through an op-amp experience years ago with my Godin Multiac. I was getting a bunch of hiss and McClish turned me on to the TI Excalibur series. They are the best of the best, but battery life drops from 3000 hours to 50, so you don't see them used in guitars - unfortunately.

With the Q-tuners - I keep trying different configurations, but the best sound I get is still going straight into the board or amp. Everything I've tried putting between the pups and whatever has either introduced noise, or lobotomized the tone. Just my experience. I know Erno did some next-level **** in his design of the Q's that other's have not caught on to yet.

[Lo end PUNCH]

Whats with his email system? I've sent numerous with no response.

[Verne Andru]

info@q-tuner.com

[don't ask him about using them with active electronics if you want a response LOL]