A Comprehensive and Unbiased Comparison of J-Retro and Audere Drop-in Jazz preamps

[ElBajista]

I posted this in another thread, but I thought I'd make it a thread to itself in order for people to easily find it when searching for information. Brace yourself, it's quite long!

A Comprehensive and Unbiased Comparison of the J-Retro and Audere Drop-in replacement Jazz Bass Preamps:

I. Features:

A. Active/Passive switch:
J-Retro: Yes
Audere: No

B. Passive Tone Control
J-Retro: Yes (deluxe model only)
Audere: No

C. Active blend circuit switch (both pickups on full without volume loss)
J-Retro: Yes
Audere: Yes

D. Battery Power indicator:
J-Retro: No
Audere: Yes

E. Z-switch pickup impedance selector:
J-Retro: No
Audere: Yes

II. Controls:

A. Volume and Pickup Blending:
J-Retro:
-Volume/Blend only, 3band EQ only.

Audere:
-Choice of 2band EQ "Volume/Volume/stacked Treble+Bass" or 3band EQ "Volume/stacked Mid+Pickup blend, Treble-Bass stack"

B. EQ settings:

J-Retro:
-Treble: +12db @ 3kHz, -12db @ kHz.
-"Bright" pull-switch on the Treble knob, +8db @ 7kHz.
-Midrange: Boost/Cut of 12db. Sweepable from 150Hz to 3 kHz.
-Bass boost-only of +15db at 50hz

Audere:
-2 band tone controls:
-Bass is shelving +/- 13 dB at 100 Hz
-Treble is shelving +/- 14.5 dB at 2.5 KHz

-3 band tone controls:
-Bass is shelving +/- 12 dB at 80 Hz
-Mid is wide bandwidth +/- 10 dB at 500 Hz
-Treble is shelving +/- 10 dB at 3.7 KHz

C. Sweepable mids:
J-Retro: Yes
Audere: No

D. Center-detent for "flat response":
J-Retro: Yes, if Bass-boost only knob is set at "minimum"
Audere: Yes


III. Other:

A. Installation (Soldering requirements)
J-Retro: Yes
Audere: No

B. Customizable options
J-Retro: Yes (Individual gain adjusters for both pickups)
Audere: Yes (Hi-freq. capacitors, Low-Z gain adjustments)

C. Cosmetic options:
J-Retro: Available in Chrome, black (upcharge), or gold (upcharge).
Audere: Chrome only

D. Price:

J-Retro: $300 for standard model, $325 for deluxe model.

Audere: $150 flat *EDIT* T-shirt promotion not available anymore. Apologies for any inconvenience or let-downs!


Now, for the pros and cons:

J-Retro Jazz preamp:
I. Pros:
-sweepable mids
-active/passive switch
-Active blend circuit (both pickups on full without volume loss)
-passive tone control available (deluxe model)
-"Bright" pull-switch on the Treble knob, +8db @ 7kHz.
-Bass boost of +15db at 50hz (deeper and more boost than the Audere, which boosts +12db at 80hz or 100hz)

II. Cons
-$300 for regular model, $350 for deluxe model. Twice the price of the Audere. ("The price difference is due to the £/$ situation at present. If the J-Retro was a US product and the Audere was British, the prices would be pretty much the other way around.")
-Volume/Blend only, no volume/volume available (Not really a con in my opinion, but might be to others)
-Boost-only bass
-no batter power indicator
-light soldering required

*(Also, some people have claimed that the J-retro "colors" the tone even in the passive position. This might be a con for some, or it might not. I didn't think it seemed right to include it as a pro or a con, since it's subjective to one's point of view.)*

Audere Jazz preamp:
I. Pros
-Choice of "Volume/Volume/Treble-Bass stack" or "Volume/Mid-Pickup blend stack, Treble-Bass stack"
-All EQ knobs are boost/cut
-Z-mode switch
-Battery power LED indicator
-no soldering required
-Semi-customizable (Hi-freq. capacitors, Low-Z gain adjustments)
-$150 flat rate *EDIT* T-shirt promotion not available anymore. Apologies for any inconvenience or let-downs!

II. Cons
-Non-sweepable mids
-No passive tone control available
-Active/passive switch not available
-one must use passive pickups, active pickups non-compatible


If you have anything to add, feel free to point out my mistake(s). Yes, I know I'm a geek.

[jobo4]

Nice job El. Thanks!

[ElBajista]

Edited original post:

*EDIT* T-shirt promotion not available anymore. Apologies for any inconvenience or let-downs!

[Brad Maestas]

Very nice comparison!
It's interesting to note that the Audere's 2-band EQ bass control is centered at 100Hz while the center for the 3-band is at 80Hz. Also, good job pointing out the fact that you can only use passive pickups with the Audere. That wasn't immediately apparent the first time I looked at their product. Again, good on ya!

-ElMaestro

[Dude]

J-Retro Deluxe's are only $325 not $350.

[ElBajista]

Fixed! Thanks!

[ElBajista]

Originally Posted by VintageBT6Lover

Very nice comparison!
It's interesting to note that the Audere's 2-band EQ bass control is centered at 100Hz while the center for the 3-band is at 80Hz.

I also found this interesting. Does anyone happen to know why this is?

Also, What does it mean when it says +12db "shelving?" What is "Shelving?"

Originally Posted by VintageBT6Lover

Also, good job pointing out the fact that you can only use passive pickups with the Audere. That wasn't immediately apparent the first time I looked at their product. Again, good on ya!

Thanks! I thought that that might be an overlooked point, so I made sure to include it.

[bassybill]

As I said in the original thread, nice work!

I'm fairly sure the price difference is mainly down to the £/$ situation at present. If the J-Retro was a US product and the Audere was British, the prices would be pretty much the other way around.

[ElBajista]

Originally Posted by bassybill

As I said in the original thread, nice work!

I'm fairly sure the price difference is mainly down to the £/$ situation at present. If the J-Retro was a US product and the Audere was British, the prices would be pretty much the other way around.

Thanks for the kind words!

I received a PM from Mr. Steve Barr, the US distributor for John East's preamps, who informed me about this raise in price due to the exchange rate. I edited the original post to include this point.

[00Funk]

I just want to know 1 thing. Will the John East knobs fit on the Audere pots

Anyone know ? I have my Audere ordered, I need to order some knobs now.

[Audere]

The East knobs fit the Audere pots which are manufactured by Alps in both cases.

Most types of preamps (including Audere and East) with stacked knobs use 6 mm pot shafts on top and 8 mm on bottom.

Thanks
David

[Audere]

Originally Posted by VintageBT6Lover

It's interesting to note that the Audere's 2-band EQ bass control is centered at 100Hz while the center for the 3-band is at 80Hz.

For the 2 band version I made the increase/decrease level swings larger and set the frequency of the controls closer toward the center of the frequency range because the players who tested the proto's liked it better that way...

Originally Posted by ElBajista

What does it mean when it says +12db "shelving?" What is "Shelving?"

For the tone controls on the ends of the frequency ranges - 2 approaches can be used
1) the control increases/decreases with a defined bandwidth like a mid range control
2) the control increases/decreases all frequencies below/above X (in frequency)

Most preamps are shelving (2).

Thanks
David

[ElBajista]

Originally Posted by SMASH

Might want to ask if this is true passive, and if it has been improved since I had mine (a couple years ago, two different models). In my case, the passive tone was weak and not comperable to the bass in passive without the preamp installed.

When I temporarily had a J-Retro installed in my Jazz, I didn't really notice much of a difference in tone (besides the obvious lack of EQ boost) when switched into passive. Then again, most of the time I had it in I kept the preamp in active mode...

Originally Posted by SMASH

Huge amount of colour and boost when set "flat", not subjective. If this has changed in the couple years since I had mine (two different models), I'm sure someone will correct this but again it's worth noting if buying used.

I have heard of people saying that even with the bass knob all the way "down" (keeping in mind it's boost-only) there is still a boost in the lower frequencies. Does anyone have this documented?

[Dude]

Not to pick a fight here Smash as I'm way past that with you but IIRC you never even installed your J-Retro and just tuned right around and sold it as new??????

[Dude]

D'oh ! You got me. I did indeed sell mine without installing it.

LOL...ok, just checking...guess I got a few brain cells left. Carry on.

[John East]

Originally Posted by SMASH

Might want to ask if this is true passive, and if it has been improved since I had mine (a couple years ago, two different models). In my case, the passive tone was weak and not comperable to the bass in passive without the preamp installed.

I asked Mr. East why this might be and he replied that the passive setting (on the J Retro without passive tone knob) was meant as a "get out of trouble" option if the battery died more so than a viable position to play in because not all pickups will match the loading of the peamp well.

I believe this might have been corrected in the meantime - I vaguely recall someone, perhaps Mr. East, saying so but it's still worth asking for clarification and keeping in mind if buying used.

In my case I was talking about stock Fender pickups, and I ended selling the preamp as I didn't like the preamp's passive setting and I didn't like that ...




Huge amount of colour and boost when set "flat", not subjective. If this has changed in the couple years since I had mine (two different models), I'm sure someone will correct this but again it's worth noting if buying used.

Just to confirm the situation here:

PASSIVE MODE
* It is a true passive mode with pickups feeding just a volume control, feeding straight out to the jack. In order to take care of this, there are two volume sections on the same knob, in other words a dual volume control where a high impedance element is used for the passive path and a low for the active path. The active element is part way through the circuit whereas most active/passive systems have just one high impedance control, usually feeding into the EQ.

* The trick is to try get the impedance seen by the pickups to be similar to a stock passive system whilst having the active option where the pickups have separate paths in active. Each pickup signal must be separate in active as each has it's own input amplifier with individual gain trim.

PASSIVE SOUND
SMASH comment: "In my case, the passive tone was weak and not comperable to the bass in passive without the preamp installed."

* Not sure why you experienced what you did? What was your rig?

* Here's comment from Terry Buddigh's review in BASS PLAYER:

"The unit does allow you to retain Old School passive vibe; switching to full passive mode reveals a shade more woody resonance and growl, with a more seasoned organic feel".

COLOURATION
"Huge amount of colour and boost when set "flat", .."

* There is slight pre-shape purposely designed in, giving a few dBs gentle boost at the low and high end. If seen on a graph it is a gentle curve much like a child might draw a gliding bird in the distance. So taking that into account, yes there is some colouration built in.

* Bear in mind that the flatest setting is with the bass fully backed off, being boost only. Some forget this and think that the centre click indent is the flatest setting, but there will already be around 6dBs of bass boost when set centally, plus the bass pre-shape. This would possibly seem to be extreme colouration.

* In short there is no totally flat setting in active. The pre-shape was designed to give the sound a little lift when going to active.

Hope this helps with some clarification.

John

[John East]

ElBajista

Many thanks for your comprehensive piece of work, great job!

Originally Posted by ElBajista

If you have anything to add, feel free to point out my mistake(s). Yes, I know I'm a geek.

In order to include all the detail, you probably should mention that the Retro has two gain preset adjusters, giving 0-12dB gain variation for each pickup, individually.

Thanks

John

[Greenman]

Thanks for the great post John. Coming atcha for a black J-Retro Deluxe

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by John East

* Bear in mind that the flatest setting is with the bass fully backed off, being boost only. Some forget this and think of this is the flatest setting, where there will already be around 6dBs of bass boost, plus the bass pre-shape. This would possibly seem to be extreme colouration.

John, I believe you're referring in the second sentence here to the EQ applied when the bass knob is in the centre detente position? Just a point of clarification for people who aren't so familiar with your pre-amp as we happy owners are!

[albass111]

GREAT THREAD!!