DarkStar Pick Ups

[RDagBasses]

Hello,
I finally put some samples on my site. a friend of mine did the same short phrase with 4 different basses in the same order of pickups selection : neck - neck + bridge - bridge with the same amp at the same level. they have been only made in order to compare the response and level of my pickups regarding some standard "usual" basses. note that I intentionnaly put my pickups on a cheap and old bass without real brand "made by ibanez for? is only silkscreened on the headstock). the other basses are : one of mine with darstars, a blade with Delano pu's played passive then active and a traditionnal Rickenbaker 4001. For the "music" lover I 'll try to record something more "flashy" next week. have a nice day.
Roger

[kurosawa]

Originally Posted by Gabeja15

The builder at Hammon ceased production and they are few and far between on the used market.

When my wallet resurrects, I'll go for a pair of wide SGDs. I want to try something new. The pickups will come first, then I'll get a bass to fit around them. The price is right, the sound is right, the maker is a pickup guy with new products in active development--with all respects due legends and so forth, a pickup is wire, magnets, form and case, and besides, I want someone I can get hold of. I'm just a bass player with email and a phone, not a psychic or necromancer.

[jock]

Has anyone played both a darkstar and the SGD Nd3 pickups? How close does the SGD sound? Which SGD model comes closest?

[MPU]

If it's the sound of a Dark Star you're after it's not too difficult to get. I've made both four and five string versions with similar laminated iron core, similar polepieces, the same size coil with both ceramic and alnico magnets and they sounded just like the Dark Star I had in hand. I used EMG covers on my pickups.
Marko

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by jock

Has anyone played both a darkstar and the SGD Nd3 pickups? How close does the SGD sound? Which SGD model comes closest?

I have had customers use one or two ND3 neck pickups to get that tone. The bridge pickup has a bit more midrange. So they use two neck pickups on two pickup basses.

http://www.bestcovery.com/sgd-neodym...-3-bass-pickup

[kurosawa]

At the time Casady recorded "After Bathing at Baxter's" and "Crown of Creation," was he playing the Guild and did it have identical Hagstrom-style pickups?

[mellowgerman]

Originally Posted by kurosawa

At the time Casady recorded "After Bathing at Baxter's" and "Crown of Creation," was he playing the Guild and did it have identical Hagstrom-style pickups?

Actually, most if not all of Baxter's was recorded with Casady's modified Fender Jazz bass (added P-pickup in the far neck position). It seems like Jack got his first Starfire around the time they were wrapping up with the Baxter's sessions, but there is no evidence to suggest that he used it on the album. The modifications to his Starfire were not made until a little after if I remember correctly.
But to answer your question, his starfire did have the Hagstrom Bisonic pickups that Dark Stars are based on. However, they were not identical to Dark Stars. Very similar but there are subtle differences between the bisonics and DS's. In addition, once Jack's starfire was modified, the bisonics in his bass were rewound to be low-impedance, which DS's are not

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by mellowgerman

In addition, once Jack's starfire was modified, the bisonics in his bass were rewound to be low-impedance, which DS's are not

Also, before they were rewound, he added a second magnet (which the DarkStars had) and Ron Wickersham added emitter follower buffers. But they found the pickups to be very wide range:

http://www.renaissanceguitars.com/ri...-interview.php

Ron Wickersham had started to mess with active electronics, first on a Fender Jazz bass for Jack Casady, and then with the Guild Starfire pickups. He was measuring pickup frequency response, and he found that the Starfire pickups (actually made by Hagstrom of Sweden) had the widest bandwidth response of anything out there, so he started working with that. Well, I came along, and my pickups were way beyond what Guild had been doing, so we started trying to figure out why.

[Low-Bottom-E]

Originally Posted by bassman10096

You are free to advance any "theory" you want, but as for me - I'm not part of the conspiracy you suggest, nor am I Fred Hammon (check my profile)!
I can't account for nor do I defend what you say has been Fred's behavior nor am I pleased to hear what you said about your experience (I need another pair of DS's and hoped Fred would reopen his doors and get square with all). I certainly support you reporting on your experience and believe everyone should exercise more than adequate care in their dealings. However, that said, I have been involved with many discussions with many very real, very satisfied users of Dark Stars. Frankly, even recently on TB, the satisfied users outnumber those reporting bad experiences. In light of this, had the evidence of the Dark Star website's apparent dissapearance not shown up, would I have been justified in "theorizing" that you were the one spreading negative rumors? I don't think so, and I hope I wouldn't have done so.

I currently have 3 basses with Darkstars in them...I can only report my OWN experiences & the feedback of other members...something tells me good things are coming our way...

[astack]

Originally Posted by MPU

If it's the sound of a Dark Star you're after it's not too difficult to get. I've made both four and five string versions with similar laminated iron core, similar polepieces, the same size coil with both ceramic and alnico magnets and they sounded just like the Dark Star I had in hand. I used EMG covers on my pickups.
Marko

This is what I don't get. I know they're a time consuming build, but if people are paying a boat load for these as they are and the technology is open/possible in a one-man-shop, why don't more companies make their own version? Not the big guys (SD DS???), but more like Roger's doing now. (THANK YOU!) I can only guess that people didn't want to step on Fred's toes before, but now that the market's wide open I really hope to see some steady sources of this breed of pickup.

At least that's my hope so I can finally get moving on a mellostang project that's been in the back of my mind for a long time now without paying $400+ for the pickup

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by astack

This is what I don't get. I know they're a time consuming build, but if people are paying a boat load for these as they are and the technology is open/possible in a one-man-shop, why don't more companies make their own version? Not the big guys (SD DS???), but more like Roger's doing now. (THANK YOU!) I can only guess that people didn't want to step on Fred's toes before, but now that the market's wide open I really hope to see some steady sources of this breed of pickup.

At least that's my hope so I can finally get moving on a mellostang project that's been in the back of my mind for a long time now without paying $400+ for the pickup

They are only time consuming to make if you make them like the originals. But there's no reason to make them that way. You can make a much simpler pickup that sounds the same. Roger's pickup is a good example of how to distill the working bits into a more convenient package. Bi-Sonics are big, but the actual pickup part is pretty small.

As far as more people making them; MPU makes them, and I'm about to release my own version. I'm using blades so that you don't have to worry about string spacing.

[astack]

I'm listening... Thanks for the update David. I saw the MPU build before, but didn't think it was to be sold - just a guy DIYing it. It did look professionally done, though. Having options for bi-sonics is kind of a double edged sword, too - with DS's I didn't have to think about what to do for a pick up, with options tho, man decisions decisions...

FWIW and at the risk of being called out for hearing with my eyes, I really dig the look of the DS/bi-sonics. The blades would be a nice feature and exposed would be a nice touch. IIRC the MPU one was pretty similar aesthetically to the orignal.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by astack

IIRC the MPU one was pretty similar aesthetically to the orignal.

No, his was in an EMG style cover. That's how I would be doing them also, but with a choice of covers. So if you wanted one for a Stingray, that's easy with no routing.

[kurosawa]

Nah, give me one with a form factor I can order a Warmoth body for, or that my local guy already has a routing pattern for. Besides, I always dug street sleepers. I want someone to ask "How the HELL does he get that sound out of EMGs?"

[astack]

Originally Posted by kurosawa

Nah, give me one with a form factor I can order a Warmoth body for, or that my local guy already has a routing pattern for. Besides, I always dug street sleepers. I want someone to ask "How the HELL does he get that sound out of EMGs?"

Warmoth offers a DS route for I think $25 extra.

Count me in the other camp that wants it to look old school and chromey. Hopefully that's still an option with some offerings.

In smaller form factor, do you loose the turnability of the pickup, i.e. moving the poles to one end of the route from the other by spinning it?

Btw, David thanks for being super helpful all over the pickup forum!

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by astack

In smaller form factor, do you loose the turnability of the pickup, i.e. moving the poles to one end of the route from the other by spinning it?

You have to realize that half of what you see on a Bi-Sonic doesn't actually do anything. It's a lot of wasted space dedicated to the lifters attached to the poles.

If you have a pickup with the poles centered then just install it where you want it, and then you don't have to worry about the poles being off center on the pickup. You also don't have to remove as much wood from the body.

Personally I think adjustable poles are over rated.

Btw, David thanks for being super helpful all over the pickup forum!

You are most welcome!

(now time to get back to winding...)

[astack]

Fair enough. I'll stay tuned for these new pups.

(Aaaand back to work myself)

[ctmullins]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

As far as more people making them; MPU makes them, and I'm about to release my own version. I'm using blades so that you don't have to worry about string spacing.

Yes!!!!!

Originally Posted by astack

FWIW and at the risk of being called out for hearing with my eyes, I really dig the look of the DS/bi-sonics. The blades would be a nice feature and exposed would be a nice touch.

Exposed blades with enough spread for a (narrow) five-string....

Originally Posted by astack

Count me in the other camp that wants it to look old school and chromey. Hopefully that's still an option with some offerings.

.... in an old school chromey package would be exactly up my alley! Now I'm getting excited at what the near future may hold!

[MPU]

Originally Posted by astack

I'm listening... Thanks for the update David. I saw the MPU build before, but didn't think it was to be sold - just a guy DIYing it.

I'm somewhere between DIY and making pickups to be sold. At the moment I'm making three DS-inspired pickups in Mojotone Jazzmaster covers. I'm not planning to make a huge amount of these (or any other pickups) but can make a few when time allows. This is more like a hobby than anything else.
Marko

[BassManPatsFan]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

As far as more people making them; MPU makes them, and I'm about to release my own version. I'm using blades so that you don't have to worry about string spacing.

Great news! Sign me up for at least one of yours.