Do Cheap Parts Really Effect the tone?

::::BASSIST:::: · #1 08-12-2007, 12:35 AM

I just gutted a made in China Squire P bass and used its wiring harness/pots etc as the basis for the electronics in my franken-P bass. The pups I'm using are NP4s (which sound fantastic btw).

My question is, besides the pickups, does low-end/made in china wiring and pots etc really negatively effect the tone?

In an audible way?

Or are quality/higher-end parts really about durability and long life?

Maybe the cheapo made in China stuff sounds as good but just isnt as durable?

Tbirdbassist · #2 08-12-2007, 12:55 AM

From my experience and from what I've heard, the cheaper electronics are just more noisy, usually just due to lack of/poor shielding. Otherwise the durability should be the same since wires, pots, etc are shielded from the outside.

I don't think there' can be much difference, if any, between low and high quality metal wire wrapped in rubber casing...

But you never know...

nastyn8c · #3 08-12-2007, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbirdbassist

From my experience and from what I've heard, the cheaper electronics are just more noisy, usually just due to lack of/poor shielding. Otherwise the durability should be the same since wires, pots, etc are shielded from the outside.

I don't think there' can be much difference, if any, between low and high quality metal wire wrapped in rubber casing...

But you never know...

+1. Shielding is the big difference. Other than that, they're the same kind of thing - metal wire wrapped in rubber casing.

figuredbass · #4 08-12-2007, 01:06 AM

There shouldn't be any difference at all in sound quality from the cheaper pots or wiring. For the most part, quality/higher-end parts really is about mechanical durability and long life. As long as there are no connection intermittency with the jack or pots, there won't be any sonic degradation assuming that the actual value of the pots meet their specified values. Go ahead and enjoy making your franken-P with the old harness. Usually you won't have to replace anything until a component fails entirely.

::::BASSIST:::: · #5 08-12-2007, 01:07 AM

Well, my Franken P has no noise even though it has "junk" wiring/pots. The pickguard has a bit of aluminum foil over the control cavity, but it doesnt look very effective... more for show really. Those Nordstrand NP4s are awesome!

::::BASSIST:::: · #6 08-12-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuredbass

There shouldn't be any difference at all in sound quality from the cheaper pots or wiring. For the most part, quality/higher-end parts really is about mechanical durability and long life. As long as there are no connection intermittency with the jack or pots, there won't be any sonic degradation assuming that the actual value of the pots meet their specified values. Go ahead and enjoy making your franken-P with the old harness. Usually you won't have to replace anything until a component fails entirely.

Thanks! That's exactly the answer to my question.

figuredbass · #7 08-12-2007, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nastyn8c

+1. Shielding is the big difference. Other than that, they're the same kind of thing - metal wire wrapped in rubber casing.

Agreed. Shielding the control cavity is always a good idea, but this ideally should be done for either cheap or expensive components within the CC. Noise is not usually an issue with passive controls in a passive bass because there isn't any DC (Direct Current, leaking into the audio signal from an active unit's power supply) involved in a passive instrument - at least there shouldn't be.

meev992 · #8 08-12-2007, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuredbass

Agreed. Shielding the control cavity is always a good idea, but this ideally should be done for either cheap or expensive components within the CC. Noise is not usually an issue with passive controls in a passive bass because there isn't any DC (Direct Current, leaking into the audio signal from an active unit's power supply) involved in a passive instrument - at least there shouldn't be.

really? like...i usually roll off my highs to get rid of hiss....

but is it my bass or is it that my computer is connected to the same power strip as my amp?

i guess this would qualify as hijacking the thread, apologies

i_got_a_mohawk · #9 08-12-2007, 03:14 AM

Im going to disagree with some points.

Id say getting higher quality pots and caps can "improve" your tone.

Generally lower quality parts will have wider tolerances, sometimes the tolerances can apparently be as low as 20%! so you could have two "500K" pots from the same manufacturer, and one could actually be 400K and the other 600K, which would effect the tone.

With caps, generally stay away from the cheapy ceramic ones as they dont have as even a response as metal film.

tallboybass · #10 08-12-2007, 10:22 AM

Just wondering.....if you can afford an NP4, can you come up with the $15 or so to use good stuff? Should be a nice sounding bass.

kipsus · #11 08-12-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Generally lower quality parts will have wider tolerances, sometimes the tolerances can apparently be as low as 20%! so you could have two "500K" pots from the same manufacturer, and one could actually be 400K and the other 600K, which would effect the tone.

With caps, generally stay away from the cheapy ceramic ones as they dont have as even a response as metal film.

+1

John Wentzien · #12 08-12-2007, 11:35 AM

The first thing I do to a cheap bass is change the pots and cap. Those cheap ones will not last long at all. I've had them fail right in the middle of a set before. Very cheap to upgrade.

::::BASSIST:::: · #13 08-12-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallboybass

Just wondering.....if you can afford an NP4, can you come up with the $15 or so to use good stuff? Should be a nice sounding bass.

I'll get around to upgrading the cheapo stuff eventually. Just happy to be playing a P bass at the moment.

I rarely even use the tone pot. In fact, of all the songs I know, not one of them calls for the tone pot to be adjusted. Its really just there for versatility.... and to keep the bass true to the P design. If I ever need to use a pick, I *might* use the tone pot.

So where can I get these metal film caps? Allparts etc?

Another reason I'm just keeping the cheap junk in there for now, is that my soldering iron doesnt work properly.It just doesnt get hot enough... except for one spot on the tip which I constantly have to "find". Its a real pain and quite frustrating. Usually results in a mess.

Currently, all the soldering is factory except for the connection from the pups. This means I dont have to worry about a bad solder job (mine) causing problems at a gig.

figuredbass · #14 08-12-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANBASS

I'll get around to upgrading the cheapo stuff eventually. Just happy to be playing a P bass at the moment.

I rarely even use the tone pot. In fact, of all the songs I know, not one of them calls for the tone pot to be adjusted. Its really just there for versatility.... and to keep the bass true to the P design. If I ever need to use a pick, I *might* use the tone pot.

So where can I get these metal film caps? Allparts etc?

Another reason I'm just keeping the cheap junk in there for now, is that my soldering iron doesnt work properly.It just doesnt get hot enough... except for one spot on the tip which I constantly have to "find". Its a real pain and quite frustrating. Usually results in a mess.

Currently, all the soldering is factory except for the connection from the pups. This means I dont have to worry about a bad solder job (mine) causing problems at a gig.

Even inexpensive basses generally use metal film caps on the tone controls, so you may not even need to replace this. But IF it turns out you do, the .047uf metal film capacitor for the tone control can be obtained from Radio Shack or Small Bear Electronics
http://www.smallbearelec.com

I agree that potentiometer values can vary, but I have also seen wide tolerances amongst the "higher quality" parts as well. For this particular application tolerance variation of the pots (if it even exists in your bass) is not an issue IMO and IME. I have not yet run into anyone, who upon changing a worn out volume or tone pot, heard a sudden change in tone for better, worse, or difference. YMMV

::::BASSIST:::: · #15 08-12-2007, 11:11 PM

Thinking of putting a .047 Hovland MusiCap Capacitor in it.

Any experience with one of these?

$15 for a cap... should be one hell of a good one!

http://www.wdmusic.com/product_31042_detailed.htm

Nighttrain1127 · #16 08-12-2007, 11:14 PM

You can use Sprague Orange Drop Caps for 4 or 5 bucks they will sound as good as anything else you can put in there.

Terrik · #17 08-12-2007, 11:37 PM

well.. price is not always the measure of a good product, nor it's country of origin..

however, analog electronic parts do have different levels of quality to them.. which will affect the sound...

ask any competent electrical engineer who's had anything to do with sound...

so, quality parts = quality sound... or we'd all have little magnets with some bare copper wire for our pickups...

Nighttrain1127 · #18 08-12-2007, 11:42 PM

While what you said is true, for the purposed of passive(filter cap) Bass Circuit . The Orange drop will sound as good as the Hoviland or any other decent cap.

figuredbass · #19 08-14-2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighttrain1127

While what you said is true, for the purposed of passive(filter cap) Bass Circuit . The Orange drop will sound as good as the Hoviland or any other decent cap.

+1

kyral210 · #20 12-29-2007, 02:36 PM

If the material of a cheap product carrying the signal is of a lower purity than an alternative product, one may assume that the resistance in this cheap product is higher than the alternative.

High resistance will result in a volume drop in the output. This may be subtle, but it may well be there. Also, cheap parts may have a capacitance increase, which robs tone. On the mechanical side, as soon as parts start to wear they will scratch and pop, not too good.

I would rather spend money on good quality, sound products than spend less on crap.