Do I just suck at EQ'ing or is this a volume issue with my pups??

gregmon79 · #1 05-10-2013, 09:47 PM

I have a modded Squire P. I put EMG's in it a long time ago. I thought it was a huge difference as opposed to the stock pups that were in it. But, I have ALWAYS had problems getting the volume I desire out of this bass even with the EMG's in it. I thought the problem may be the amp I was using. I had a fender bassman 410 pushed my a yorkie bassmaster 400 for quite awhile. It sounded wonderful in my room but any time I ever took it to practice and or live, I always struggled to be heard no matter how high I turned up. My other, and primary, bass is an ibanez ATK 300 that I use most times. But I want to start using the P just as regularly. Fast forward a few years, I get a GK 1001 RB and a neo 410. Again, it sounds wonderful in my room, but as soon as I get to a live setting, I'm lost in the mix. I've tried all kinds of EQ'ing techniques and I have 3 different preamp pedals I'm using, the B7K, VT and the BDDI. I STILL can't get the volume I need and cut through. I am planning on putting pups by SGD Lutherie in it eventually hoping that will fix the problem. So, do y'all think its the pups, the EMG's, or is it my inability to EQ good enough. Or do you think it's something else? And do y'all think the pups from SGD are the way to go? Or can anyone suggest a different route for pups?? The ones I'm looking at through SGD are the, I think they are, the triple coil set he makes. Can anyone help?

gregmon79 · #2 05-10-2013, 11:01 PM

These are actually the exact pups I was gonna pull the trigger on when
i decided to grab them from SGD, ND3-P4 (P Bass size), Quad Coil 4 string pickup. Any of you have experience with these?? You think they will be a good match for my P and will they solve my volume problem?

walterw · #3 05-10-2013, 11:35 PM

pickups won't affect your overall volume, that's entirely about the amp.

EQ in more mids and less super-low bass, and it'll sound louder with the band.

still, if you find yourself turning the amp up to the point where it starts to sound distorted and farty, but still aren't loud enough, you need a bigger amp.

lustersilk · #4 05-10-2013, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

pickups won't affect your overall volume, that's entirely about the amp.

Well, and the cabinet & the speakers too.

walterw · #5 05-10-2013, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustersilk

Well, and the cabinet & the speakers too.

right, right;

by "amp" i meant the "rig" i guess, amp and cabs.

a second cab (identical, please) cures a host of ills when you can't hear yourself.

lustersilk · #6 05-10-2013, 11:46 PM

I knew - just a bit snarky tonight. Peace!

hamfistUK · #7 05-11-2013, 12:03 AM

OK, you mentioned the 1001RB, which is obviously a well known amp on TB, and is capable of huge volume.
What would be your typical settings on it ?, and settings on your bass ?

If we know what you're tending towards it might help folks suggest changes.

Grissle · #8 05-11-2013, 12:17 AM

Aren't some EMGs mid scooped? Mid scooped tone usually sounds good on its own but gets quickly lost in a mix.

atheos · #9 05-11-2013, 12:29 AM

Pickups have approximately nothing to do with this. Changing them may add some clarity and punch to your tone but I claim they are definitely not the issue here. The GK rig is not the issue either, it should be plenty loud IMO.

First, EQ'ing the bass is very different when you're playing with a band. Scoop any mids and you just can't hear yourself anymore. You just can't. It may sound wonderful alone but when playing with a band, everybody needs to make certain compromises for the greater good. Don't like mids? Well, bummer. Because you'll need those low mids to hear yourself.

Another issue may be volume. Maybe you're not too quiet at all but the others are too loud? If you can't hear yourself, ask the others to turn down instead of turning yourself up. Your entire band will likely sound better, more dynamics, more headroom, less distortion and resonance from various things. You should try this.

Third could be the others' tone. Guitarists sometimes have a secret wish to be bassists so they turn the bass knob all the way up from their amps. No, no and no. You're the bassist. If you notice this issue, ask them to turn their lows down. Sometimes keyboard players have this dilemma, too.

Fourth, the room in which you play. Bad acoustics can totally ruin your tone and cab placement is very important. Move your cab around the place to find a good spot, usually around the walls. The room acoustics can cause over 12dB boosts and cuts on certain frequencies, meaning that your EQ might not even have enough range to compensate. Besides, it's mostly a bad idea to try to fix acoustics with EQ'ing.

Fifth and last, you may not know how to listen to yourself in a balanced mix. You may hear yourself just fine but you can't concentrate on listening yourself because of the other instruments. I've run into this issue a few times; a player claims he can't hear himself even though his tone actually totally drowns everything else. The only remedy for this that I can think of is A) deal with it or B) get yourself good in-ear monitoring system.

gregmon79 · #10 05-11-2013, 01:15 AM

Thank you all for your suggestions. ok, heres the thing, I figured it wasn't the volume, I had to ask though. My amp and cab are more than sufficient for putting out the volume. And yes, we do play too loud, were working on that. My active ATK has no problem whatsoever in being heard and felt. Hence the inquiry. I think Ggrisle is on to something. I just never thought about it until I SAW someone tell me, the EMG's are hugely mid scooped. I think maybe if I were to bump the mids up on my preamp pedal or the head, I may be ok. The pups I was planning on ordering have more options as far as EQing goes onboard. They are still passive but I will have push pull knobs to help with EQing onboard with those. i think after hearing all your opinions, its the mids thing. Ive always just kept the same settings going on my whole rig even when I switched basses. I will try the suggestions, thanks again all!!

willbassyeah · #11 05-11-2013, 01:44 AM

How did your guitarist eq their amp? Is your eq complimenting theirs on are there frequency that clashes.. How is your volume compared to your guitarist?

M0ses · #12 05-11-2013, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

pickups won't affect your overall volume, that's entirely about the amp.

Not even close, man!
Pickup elements that affect signal level:

- number of windings
- strength of magnets (this can decrease with age)
- position relative to the strings

not to mention all other the passive circuitry that might be inside your bass that reduces volume slightly when working, possibly by a lot if there's a problem.

If another bass is working just fine with the same amp, then it's not the amp. You were kind of unclear about that though.

Are the pickups adjusted properly? Is all the wiring done properly? If you did that yourself and you're a novice, the tone pot is a possible culprit.

Klonk · #13 05-11-2013, 03:11 AM

Remember to not intrude on each other's frequency spaces. You should be the only one doing the bass frequencies, ideally even the kick drum and floor tom should be a little different from your space, even though that's hard to do sometimes. And don't even get me started on keyboard players..

That is why, as I have grown older and wiser (?) I like lower midrange more than the "bass" range on my amps. I use Ampeg SVT-VR, and I have it on the lowest mid frequency selector, as it cuts through the mix much better than if I were to turn up the bass control. Ironic, which is why a lot of people find it hard to belive, but try it!

Also, remember that your ears are not in knee height. Search these forums for cab tilting, wedge etc, and you'll find plenty of useful reading material on that subject!

grendle · #14 05-11-2013, 09:00 AM

It's not the pickups, it's the eq and the height of the cab from the sound of it. Stay away from any low boost buttons and get the cab off the floor, preferably on top of another 4x10. That will probably help the most.
All that 30 Hz garbage is cool and sounds great in the bedroom. But the fact is most sound men cut everything below 100-150 Hz to control feed back. Stage volume can't compete with foh. So you gotta learn where the real bottom end is in the low mids. Ymmv

Floyd Eye · #15 05-11-2013, 09:03 AM

Turn down or remove guitar player's "Bass" control knob. Bump your mids, especially low mids. Done.

73jbass · #16 05-11-2013, 09:04 AM

Which EMG's do you have? Most have the preamp built in,and you need a battery to get enough signal to the amp.Didn't see where this was addressed yet.

dmusic148 · #17 05-11-2013, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M0ses

Not even close, man!
Pickup elements that affect signal level:

- number of windings
- strength of magnets (this can decrease with age)
- position relative to the strings
.

Which has nothing to do with how loud the amp can go, man.

OP- more mids, less ultra low bass.

Grissle · #18 05-11-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grendle

It's not the pickups, it's the eq and the height of the cab from the sound of it. Stay away from any low boost buttons and get the cab off the floor, preferably on top of another 4x10. That will probably help the most.
All that 30 Hz garbage is cool and sounds great in the bedroom. But the fact is most sound men cut everything below 100-150 Hz to control feed back. Stage volume can't compete with foh. So you gotta learn where the real bottom end is in the low mids. Ymmv

The pickups may be a contributing factor, after all his ATK cuts through fine.

Floyd Eye · #19 05-11-2013, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grissle

The pickups may be a contributing factor, after all his ATK cuts through fine.

They ATK most likely is EQed totally differently and we still haven't found out if these EMGs are being powered by a battery.

gregmon79 · #20 05-11-2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 73jbass

Which EMG's do you have? Most have the preamp built in,and you need a battery to get enough signal to the amp.Didn't see where this was addressed yet.

I put them in about 10 years ago or more. I'm pretty sure I hooked them up right. And yes, they are the ones that need a battery and are active. I've tried lowering and raising the pick ups. Maybe I need to heighten them a little. I would suppose they have a built in preamp as well. But I only have one tone knob and a volume knob.

I know if I were to elevate my amp, it would help. A little. But IMO it's the pups. I know I'm asking advice and I appreciate it, I just had to ask the questions I did to get as much feedback from you guys as possible. I've been playing on these things for years and after hearing what ggrisle had said above I really think he hit it on the head. The EMG's seem really mid scooped so I may have to compensate for that on my head/pedals. I've never payed attention to my guitarist bass level. I've never thought I needed to because again, my ATK has NEVER had any problems getting through and is always heard. That's what led me to believe its all the EMG's in my P. I think if I had a mid control on my onboard pre, I'd be ok. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that'll help immensely.