Emg BTC or S Duncan blackout preamp

ariff · #1 03-01-2013, 08:33 AM

So I have been thinking about adding an active circuit on my modified CV P bass. I love the bass it just seems to lack the low end I am use to having with my active basses. I swapped out the original PU for a Bill Lawrence P46 and that helped a bit but I think I need a little more flexibility. So I have been looking at both these Bass Treble preamps. Any thoughts on which one may be the better preamp. The only real difference I see is the EMG has 4 freq settings as opposed to the SD having only 2. Another question I had is could this preamp be wired in to a push pull pot to switch from active to passive? And if so how would a guy do that?
Thanks.. Here are the links to the preamps..

http://www.seymourduncan.com/product...ackouts_2band/

http://www.emgpickups.com/products/index/104/146/4

ctmullins · #2 03-01-2013, 12:38 PM

I was in the same boat about a year ago. Both seem to be quality preamps. The EMG is slightly more expensive, but as you mentioned, it provides four different treble freqs (and it comes with cheesy knobs). I ended up with the BTC, but only because I ran across one in the Classifieds.

I use the lowest treble setting - 2khz if I recall - and I use it just like a passive tone knob, with the added ability to boost. And the bass control provides a solid bottom end, though I can't fathom why anybody would cut the low freqs...

Both have the concentric pot integral with the preamp circuit board, so if you wanted a push/pull active/passive, you'd have to use a volume knob for that. But the current draw is so low that it's really only a theoretical concern.

ariff · #3 03-01-2013, 12:47 PM

Yeah I already have a push pull volume pot to switch from series\parallel, but I never use it in parallel, it sounds very thin. I have been looking for a wiring diagram to setup these to switch from passive\active and can't seem to find anything. Hoping someone can point me in the right direction. Thanks for the info.. Oh yeah did you replace the knobs? I'd want to get chrome knobs to match the volume knob and tuners\bridge.. If so which ones fit?

testing1two · #4 03-01-2013, 01:08 PM

The biggest difference is that EMG publishes frequency specs/graphs and Duncan does not. That said I would probably skip the bypass and instead use a concentric pot for volume/passive tone. The passive tone is much more useful for cutting and the active treble is more suited for boosting IMO.

1bassleft · #5 03-01-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctmullins

The EMG is slightly more expensive, but as you mentioned, it provides four different treble freqs (and it comes with cheesy knobs). I ended up with the BTC, but only because I ran across one in the Classifieds.

I use the lowest treble setting - 2khz if I recall - and I use it just like a passive tone knob, with the added ability to boost. And the bass control provides a solid bottom end, though I can't fathom why anybody would cut the low freqs...

Both have the concentric pot integral with the preamp circuit board, so if you wanted a push/pull active/passive, you'd have to use a volume knob for that.

I must be ctmullins' twin. I got 2 BTCs unused but cheap and have installed one in an OLP MM3 5-string. The wiring diag and instructions (mine are pre-connectors) were very good and the install, with new pup and added on-on-on dpdt switch for series/para/single worked 1st time. My treble also set at 2kHz and, after my initial "doesn't act like a Stingray eq" (because it isn't) reaction, I've quickly grown to like it a lot. As said, you can't push-pull it but using an on-on-on for the tapping does free up the vol for passive/active. Trouble is, and just from memory, the usual set up has the vol too late in the chain for bypass AFAIK. The good news is that I consider the BTC in its centre detents to be pretty neutral sounding.

The freebie plastic knobs are on, but I didn't like them (the lower ring on the concentric is particularly nasty) and, because they're standard 6mm/9mm, ordered chrome domes from China off ebay for $2 each. I'll be fitting over the w/e and, unless you hear otherwise, you can assume they popped on and screwed in fine.

ariff · #6 03-01-2013, 01:53 PM

Cool thanks 1bassleft.. Wanna sell your other BTC ;>) if ya still have it?

1bassleft · #7 03-01-2013, 02:57 PM

I still have it (although arrived without the plastic knobs) but I'm undecided on whether to use it or an SD musicman preamp I have for a project of mine. Right now, I'm not in a position to say "Well, it's no use to me...", sorry.

For some reason, in the early 2000s, I found them quite easy to get (both were imported from the US) unused and cheap - the £/$ rate was also very good for me - but nothing is below the standard $79/€72 at the moment. They do come up and are very handy for tight top-routs (like the MM3).

ariff · #8 03-01-2013, 03:01 PM

No problem.. Just thought I'd ask.. I don't think I'll have any problem getting one. So far none have popped up on the TB classifieds yet.. Hoping one will.

so I can hopefully save a little cash.

1bassleft · #9 03-01-2013, 03:11 PM

I agree, a mod or a build always sounds better when a few quid have been saved.

1bassleft · #10 03-01-2013, 03:14 PM

BTW, to the mods, I've just realized that, as a bog-standard member, I'm not entitled to hawk around gear and that honestly wasn't my intention in chiming in - just in case the big stick was coming my way.

**awilkie84** · #11 03-01-2013, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctmullins

I was in the same boat about a year ago. Both seem to be quality preamps. The EMG is slightly more expensive, but as you mentioned, it provides four different treble freqs (and it comes with cheesy knobs). I ended up with the BTC, but only because I ran across one in the Classifieds.

I use the lowest treble setting - 2khz if I recall - and I use it just like a passive tone knob, with the added ability to boost. And the bass control provides a solid bottom end, though I can't fathom why anybody would cut the low freqs...

Both have the concentric pot integral with the preamp circuit board, so if you wanted a push/pull active/passive, you'd have to use a volume knob for that. But the current draw is so low that it's really only a theoretical concern.

I believe both are available in non-stacked versions, too. In fact, I have a BTS in my Spector NS-2000/5 & they're the non-stacked version of the BTC.

ariff · #12 03-01-2013, 03:38 PM

Agreed.. Same here.. Just been having a hard time finding a used one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1bassleft

BTW, to the mods, I've just realized that, as a bog-standard member, I'm not entitled to hawk around gear and that honestly wasn't my intention in chiming in - just in case the big stick was coming my way.

1bassleft · #13 03-01-2013, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awilkie84

I believe both are available in non-stacked versions, too. In fact, I have a BTS in my Spector NS-2000/5 & they're the non-stacked version of the BTC.

That's right, they also do the respective systems with additional pots. For the CV, the BTC has the advantage of not increasing the # of holes and knobs, though.

testing1two · #14 03-01-2013, 05:19 PM

BTS = separate pots for bass & treble; BTC = concentric pot.

FWIW the EMG concentric knobs aren't bad if you sand the bottom edge of the top knob so it moves freely & smoothly inside the bottom ring. Otherwise there's just too much friction so turning one control will end up turning both. It's an annoyance but easily fixed. My biggest gripe is that they don't have a white dot or line so you can clearly see the control positions.

ctmullins · #15 03-01-2013, 05:41 PM

Passive/active is easy - pickup -> 500k volume pot -> DPDT switch that either feeds into the preamp or feeds straight into the output jack.

As mentioned, the standard EMG knobs work fine once you improve the clearance between the upper and lower. But aftermarket knobs have a better tactility. 6mm/8mm, going from memory.

I have a BTS destined for a future build. They're just good basic preamps for not much outlay.

1bassleft · #16 03-01-2013, 05:46 PM

Please ignore any unintended "knob gags" that would have British teenagers ROFLing

I don't have that problem with the EMG freebies, it's the feel. The vol single didn't seem too bad, and I thought I might as well use them but the concentric's bass ring is of the hard, ghastly plastic that feels like it came out of an 80s sub-compact auto. I want to wash my hands afterward.

1bassleft · #17 03-01-2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctmullins

They're just good basic preamps for not much outlay.

Absolutely. I put the BTC in my son's OLP because space was tight and I didn't think he deserved my SD 3-band MM pre with the slappy pull-vol thingy. Having heard it, I'd be quite happy to put the BTC in my build and flog off the SD as unused. I like the clarity, a good bass boost that's got grind and not just boom, and the treble boost is not as hopeless as the bargain stuff out there. If a used or "box-opened" comes up a bit cheaper, they're a definite grab.

testing1two · #18 03-01-2013, 06:23 PM

Nothing wrong with your knob gag. It showed spunk.

ariff · #19 03-01-2013, 09:25 PM

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by testing1two

Nothing wrong with your knob gag. It showed spunk.

chilliwilli · #20 04-15-2013, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctmullins

I use the lowest treble setting - 2khz if I recall - and I use it just like a passive tone knob, with the added ability to boost. And the bass control provides a solid bottom end, though I can't fathom why anybody would cut the low freqs...

Cutting lows with the bass eq is very useful I think. If you use thicker strings or like to slap it can really help the bass sound clear and well defined. Sometimes the room sounds boomy too and taking the lows down a bit can prevent you form sounding like you are underwater.

The treble control I don't like for cutting at all, but it sounds very nice when boosted.

I think this preamp is best used with a passive/active bypass, so you can use the tone control in passive mode to cut highs and make things sound warmer. When you want things more well defined or crisp you can boost highs and cut lows in active mode.