emg-j distortion

**dasto** · #1 08-15-2008, 12:27 PM

I've swapped my passive j-pickups of my Fender RI '75 jazz bass with a set of emg-j's (acitve). I put also a j-retro 01 in the bass. With the passive pickups I had no issue. Since I put the emg's in the sound especially when I'm slapping ist distorted.
When I run the j-retro on passive mode, the distortion is still there. So I think it must come from the emg's. I lowerd them as much as I could, but it didn't get much better. (Far away of my desired hifi sound)
I run the system with a 9v battery, which is connected to the pickups and the preamp.
Has anybody an idea how this problem could be solved?
I had already an email exchange with john east, who by the way gives a great support, and I think that the problem must be on the side of the emg's.
Any advice?

badboy1984 · #2 08-15-2008, 12:47 PM

I'm not sure is it this that cause the problem. I think is the John East preamp and the EMG pickup crash with each other. According to EMG that volume pots should be 25K and blend pot should be 50k etc. I'm not sure what the John East pots values are. It could be the input is too high so thats why it cause distortion. You can set the gain value on the John East preamp.

I use j-retro myself along with passive pickup and that seems fine. Is their specific sound you want? or you just want EMG sound? Personally i think the J-Retro is really good on a jazz.

**dasto** · #3 08-15-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy1984

I'm not sure is it this that cause the problem. I think is the John East preamp and the EMG pickup crash with each other. According to EMG that volume pots should be 25K and blend pot should be 50k etc. I'm not sure what the John East pots values are. It could be the input is too high so thats why it cause distortion. You can set the gain value on the John East preamp.

I use j-retro myself along with passive pickup and that seems fine. Is their specific sound you want? or you just want EMG sound? Personally i think the J-Retro is really good on a jazz.

John East told me, that the j-retro and the emg's should match very well.
I put the input gain to the lowest possible level so I don't think that the distortion is produced in the preamp.
Check out the small clip and then you got an impression of what I'm talking about. The clip was recorded in passive mode balance in the middle of both pickups.

http://www.soundupload.com/audio/lpwu7xj0z9hp16te

badboy1984 · #4 08-15-2008, 01:47 PM

That distortion is sounds like speaker is farting but of cause i don't mean the speaker have problem but it just like it.

The only way to test weather is the preamp or the pickup that causing the problem is. Take the preamp out and just use the EMG pickup to see is the distortion still their. You can also try connect the preamp to another set of pickup to test it as well.

**dasto** · #5 08-15-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy1984

. You can also try connect the preamp to another set of pickup to test it as well.

With the original passive fender pickups the j-retro had no issue. I just wanted to achieve with the swap, that I get more sizzling highs and a more hifi sounding bass.

compare this youtube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkOCNwmapt0

idler · #6 08-15-2008, 02:29 PM

Try converting the circuit to run at 18V, might give it more headroom. Particularly if you're slapping, the EMGs might be compressing the signal, leading to the distortion. Otherwise, how are you setting the onboard EQ? On one of my basses, maxing the bass & rolling off the treble really pushes the limits of what my rig can cope with, low-end-wise. Speaker clip city.

Or a bad solder connection somewhere?

**dasto** · #7 08-15-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idler

Try converting the circuit to run at 18V, might give it more headroom. Particularly if you're slapping, the EMGs might be compressing the signal, leading to the distortion. Otherwise, how are you setting the onboard EQ? On one of my basses, maxing the bass & rolling off the treble really pushes the limits of what my rig can cope with, low-end-wise. Speaker clip city.

Or a bad solder connection somewhere?

The problem is where to put a second 9v battery in a jazz bass?

Even with the EQ set flat the distortion is still there. The clip btw is in passive mode, so the EQ of the j-retro has no influence.

Concerning the soldering everything was made again this afternoon.

4StringTheorist · #8 08-15-2008, 04:14 PM

dasto

Are you sure you aren't overdriving the input of your amp? These pickups might be providing a hotter signal than your old pickups, and if you were used to playing with the amplifier gain high, that could easily cause your distortion issues.

Also, try setting your amp EQ flat until you've diagnosed the problem one way or another.

I've heard nothing but great things about running EMGs through the J-Retro preamp, so I hope that you can get this cleared up. The combo of pickups and preamp that you've chosen will definitely give you the sizzling hi-fi tone that you say you desire. We just need to figure out and fix this distortion issue. Worst case is that it's a bum set of pickups and you get them replaced.

If lowering your amp gain and flattening the EQ doesn't solve the problem, the next thing you'll need is to provide pictures of your wiring here.

PilbaraBass · #9 08-15-2008, 04:45 PM

I had the same problem with an EMG P. It didn't matter what the volume pot was set @, or where the tone control was set @...if I played hard, it clipped...

I had no other preamp...

very disheartening...I just couldn't get it to work right...

send the pickups back...my guess is that the pickups are bad

badboy1984 · #10 08-15-2008, 04:49 PM

sounds like pickup is faulty now. My EMG jazz on my warwick with bart preamp cause no problem. Sure it is hot input but it don't distort like this.

Send the pickup back i guess.

**dasto** · #11 08-16-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4StringTheorist

dasto

Are you sure you aren't overdriving the input of your amp? These pickups might be providing a hotter signal than your old pickups, and if you were used to playing with the amplifier gain high, that could easily cause your distortion issues.

Also, try setting your amp EQ flat until you've diagnosed the problem one way or another.

I've heard nothing but great things about running EMGs through the J-Retro preamp, so I hope that you can get this cleared up. The combo of pickups and preamp that you've chosen will definitely give you the sizzling hi-fi tone that you say you desire. We just need to figure out and fix this distortion issue. Worst case is that it's a bum set of pickups and you get them replaced.

If lowering your amp gain and flattening the EQ doesn't solve the problem, the next thing you'll need is to provide pictures of your wiring here.

I've controlled the output of the pickups only without the preamp on behalf of an oszillograph (I hope this is the right term) and we saw that the graph was flatened at the peaks. So we thought it could be the problem of the distance of the pickups to the strings and now I've got 6mm distance to the strings (0.24 inch) and the result is was you've heard in the clip.

As for the wiring I've attached the drawing of John East who helpd me a lot in this issue.

I wasn't aware that pickups can be faulty. So I will have to send them back to bestbassgear if nothing helps.

Unfortunately the tech support of emg didn't get back on me even though I've written twice to them explaining the problem.

kyral210 · #12 08-16-2008, 02:02 AM

Quote:

According to EMG that volume pots should be 25K

Make sure you have that 25k volume pot or they just wont work right. I strongly recommend using an 18v supply to increase your headroom and output. Raise your pickups as close to the strings as you can without the strings rattling on the pickups.

John East · #13 08-16-2008, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy1984

The only way to test weather is the preamp or the pickup that causing the problem is. Take the preamp out and just use the EMG pickup to see is the distortion still their.

As Daniel said it, was fine with the passive pickups orignally. And just to clarify the way things work with a retro, in passive mode, the pickups are feeding just through a volume control to the jack.

The j-retro volume control has two sections controlled by the same knob, one for the passive signal and the other for the active.

John

**dasto** · #14 08-16-2008, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilbaraBass

I had the same problem with an EMG P. It didn't matter what the volume pot was set @, or where the tone control was set @...if I played hard, it clipped...

I had no other preamp...

very disheartening...I just couldn't get it to work right...

send the pickups back...my guess is that the pickups are bad

I think you're right. Listen to the clip which I recorded with the volume set almost fully down, EQ flat, active mode ...

http://www.soundupload.com/audio/r7l0ixp5p683zxqv

PilbaraBass · #15 08-16-2008, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasto

I think you're right. Listen to the clip which I recorded with the volume set almost fully down, EQ flat, active mode ...

http://www.soundupload.com/audio/r7l0ixp5p683zxqv

major bummer

**dasto** · #16 08-17-2008, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilbaraBass

I had the same problem with an EMG P. It didn't matter what the volume pot was set @, or where the tone control was set @...if I played hard, it clipped...

I had no other preamp...

very disheartening...I just couldn't get it to work right...

send the pickups back...my guess is that the pickups are bad

Did you replace the emg's with emg's? And was the problem gone with the new set?

NKUSigEp · #17 08-17-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasto

With the original passive fender pickups the j-retro had no issue. I just wanted to achieve with the swap, that I get more sizzling highs and a more hifi sounding bass.

compare this youtube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkOCNwmapt0

I'll let ya in on a little secret...that sound has very little to do with the gear and everything to do with how you play.

I hate to admit it being as big of a gear-head as I am, but I could never acheive that sound and I've had Laklands, Warwicks, Fenders, Spectors, and much more with just about every pickup and preamp you can think of. I just can't slap for nothing!

And to help with the distortion problem, I'd suggest setting EVERYTHING on your bass and amp as flat as you can get it and starting with your amp's gain all the way down and volume at a reasonable level. Play open E's and while you're doing that, turn the gain up on your amp until it starts clipping (distorting). You should be able to get rid of it that way. I just think it's nearly impossible for the pickups to be the source of the distortion. Maybe the cause, in which case the previously mentioned method should help.

king_biscuit · #18 08-17-2008, 11:00 AM

Each of the EMGs essentually has a preamp built into the pickup. Why would you want to double preamp the bass by adding a J-Retro. Maybe John East thought you were using passive EMGs. My suggestion is to just get rid of the J-Retro, or get a set of passive pickups that you like.

king_biscuit · #19 08-17-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John East

the way things work with a retro, in passive mode, the pickups are feeding just through a volume control to the jack.

But what is the value of the J-Retro pots? It makes a big difference with EMGs, and that's why a set of active EMGs comes with wiring and pots that match the pickups.

**dasto** · #20 08-17-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

Each of the EMGs essentually has a preamp built into the pickup. Why would you want to double preamp the bass by adding a J-Retro. Maybe John East thought you were using passive EMGs. My suggestion is to just get rid of the J-Retro, or get a set of passive pickups that you like.

Nope. John is aware of the fact, that I'm using active pickups with the j-retro. He said, that they match very well with the j-retro.

I already play a Spector Euro with activ EMG P/J pickups and a preamp, and I love this combination especially for it's nice slap sound. My goal was to achieve with my Fender better highs and a more hifi - like sound, like the one on the linked youtube clip.
The question should not be, why I wanna do this, but why doesn't it work with 9v although it's published in the technical description, that the pickups should run on 9v supply. Measurements with the oszillograph showed clearly, that the emg's were clipping with 9v even when the j-retro was taken out of the circuit.

BTW the big silence of the technical support makes me think too ...