Evidence Audio Reveal vs. Monorail?

[bass07]

Hey all, I've been set on getting Evidence Audio Monorails as patch cables for a rack setup for a while, but I recently found out about EA's new Reveal cable, which seems like it's somewhere between the Monorail and the Melody. Does anyone have experience with both the Monorail and Reveal and could offer a comparison as far as a patch cable? Any experienced input is appreciated. Thanks.

[newbold]

misc. forum, please.

[bongomania]

When you're talking about patch cables in the back of a rack, there will be zero difference between any one basically-decent cable and another. For one thing, the lengths are so short that the difference in their total capacitance is minimal. For another, the outputs of everything in the rack are from active devices, with very low impedance, so the capacitance is pretty much irrelevant anyway.

There are no other tonal effects from any cable. "Don't believe the hype."

Now, if you had a patch cord that had bad shielding, and was noisy, then by all means replace that with a lower-noise cord. Same goes for flimsy assembly, bad solder joints, wire that's so thin it's liable to break up inside the vinyl coating... they can all make a cable perform badly, so replace with a well-made cable. Any of Lava's cables will be well made.

[SGD Lutherie]

I agree with Bongomania. Any quality cable will do. Don't waste your money on over priced patch cables.

[bass07]

Originally Posted by bongomania

When you're talking about patch cables in the back of a rack, there will be zero difference between any one basically-decent cable and another. For one thing, the lengths are so short that the difference in their total capacitance is minimal. For another, the outputs of everything in the rack are from active devices, with very low impedance, so the capacitance is pretty much irrelevant anyway.

There are no other tonal effects from any cable. "Don't believe the hype."

Now, if you had a patch cord that had bad shielding, and was noisy, then by all means replace that with a lower-noise cord. Same goes for flimsy assembly, bad solder joints, wire that's so thin it's liable to break up inside the vinyl coating... they can all make a cable perform badly, so replace with a well-made cable. Any of Lava's cables will be well made.

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

I agree with Bongomania. Any quality cable will do. Don't waste your money on over priced patch cables.

I'm not about to waste my money on over-priced patch cables, but I'm not about to waste my money on poorly made ones either. My question was merely if anyone had experience with both of these two cables and could tell me any differences.

Bongo, you're right on the poor construction, but from what I, and others I know who use EA cables, know from experience is that there IS a difference in tone. There's a quote, supposedly from Evidence Audio's site, that mentions a very good point about the quality of cables:

"My cables are designed with the idea that no cable is good.
They all suck, and some suck less than others. No cable can
actually ‘improve’ the sound quality; it can only make it
sound ‘less bad’ than another cable"

The Monster Cable garbage about having different cables for bass, guitar, keyboard, etc. I know is a fallacy (though the bass cable has a capacitor in it that colors the tone... not natural, kind of weird).I know EA cables are quality, very good quality, and if you know where to look and who to buy from you can get them at a much more reasonable price.

Please inform me if you have any experience with the EA Monorail and Reveal and can note any differences in the cables.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by bass07

...but from what I, and others I know who use EA cables, know from experience is that there IS a difference in tone.

Not for patch cables.

A guitarist I play with has an Evidence Audio Lyric. I compared it to my Spectraflex and we couldn't hear any difference. This was likely because his guitar has active pickups, and my bass is active. So in situations where you are using an active signal, you wont hear any difference. Maybe you would with a passive bass to amp cable though.

So for short interconnects for your rack there will not be a difference on tone.

[bongomania]

Also, please check this out:

How do different cables handle transient spikes?
Analysis of Audio Cables

Essentially the only difference in sound with any cable is the capacitance it adds to a filter created by an interaction with a passive guitar's pickups and pots. And this difference is completely and totally wiped out by the use of active electronics and short cable lengths.

[bass07]

Bongo, I went to your page, but this one also sparks my interest:

Audio Cables Compared and Recommended

In your research on the Analysis of Audio Cables link, there actually was a difference in the results. After you raised the z out and lowered the z in that range of how the cables reacted is actually pretty broad. 4k difference at that range does impact the tone, regardless of how small it may seem to be. Again the Monster Bass made a whole lot more noise. You also said the anomalies in the first test were due to the power wiring in the room, which is yet another cable that can make or break the sound (one of the reasonings for power conditioning).

On the link I posted are some of the other major reasons some cables are better than others. I especially noticed the second to last column. Ambient noise. That hissing when you're not playing anything, or that extra junk that floats around while you are. That is one of the biggest reasons to pay for better cables. The sound is cleaner than its competitors. I remember one person saying that the sound is only as good as its weakest link. If you have a bunch of patch cables or longer instrument cables (or both) that are allowing a lot of ambient noise to get in the mix it can snowball and give you a garbage tone. Given, this is not, by far, the BIGGEST factor in having a bad tone, but it is a factor.

Also, what does other research show on the topic?

Still interested in the original question, though. Any differences between the EA Monorail and Reveal?

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by bass07

After you raised the z out and lowered the z in that range of how the cables reacted is actually pretty broad.

That's not how amps work though. That would be a bad situation. The input Z on audio gear is generally in the order of at least 1M. Some amps, such as Markbass are fairly low, at about 500k.

Since were talking about patch cables for a rack system, that will always be a low z out and high z in. That's what we were saying. You wont hear any real difference. This is also true of a cable between an active bass and the amp. The low z of the active stage negates the benefits of the cable's design, since what differentiates most cables is the capacitance per foot.

That's one of the main reasons to use an active bass. They sound the same no matter what load they are driving.

[bongomania]

Precisely. We are saying the differences that are shown in the "very different" graph are relevant for passive instruments, long cable lengths, and amps/pedals with low input impedance. None of those three factors has anything to do with patch cables in a rack. In fact, the first graph showing "no difference" is precisely what you get with patch cables in a rack.

Regarding the power glitches at 60 and 180 Hz, these transferred via the wire itself, not through the air--so even the most "noise resistant" cable would still have registered those glitches. I tested each cable multiple times, and the glitches did not occur consistently, they were seemingly random.

Yes, ambient noise is a big deal, and I absolutely agree that a great cable should reject more ambient noise than an "average" cable. But to the best of my knowledge, I'm the only person who has been testing instrument cables in an amp rig specifically to gauge noise. Regrettably I have not tested the Reveal or Monorail yet.

[dlenaghan]

Well, I can't say I've done any of this scientifically, but when I replaced my nylon braided cables, Monsters I think they were (this is going on four years ago), with Moollon Customs, which are somewhere in the neighborhood of Evidence but more flexible (and sadly no longer for sale), my relatively short chain (3m cable to Sansamp, patch to Hartke VXL, patch to Moollon bass driver, 5m cable to amp) went from scratchy and hissy to pretty much silent, and this was using the passive option on my G&L ASAT. I always thought the hum and hiss was either one of the pedals or the bass (which admittedly still got noisy in active mode, hence never using it).

It sure made rehearsal more tolerable. If only the guitarists had sprung for something besides the 3-for-5 dollar plastic patch cables and generic instrument cables...

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by dlenaghan

Well, I can't say I've done any of this scientifically, but when I replaced my nylon braided cables, Monsters I think they were (this is going on four years ago), with Moollon Customs, which are somewhere in the neighborhood of Evidence but more flexible (and sadly no longer for sale), my relatively short chain (3m cable to Sansamp, patch to Hartke VXL, patch to Moollon bass driver, 5m cable to amp) went from scratchy and hissy to pretty much silent, and this was using the passive option on my G&L ASAT.

That was probably because of bad shielding on that cable. You will hear a different on a passive bass with different cables between the bass and the amp. You will hear less difference with an active bass. But that's talking about the tone, not noise.

In this instance he was asking about short patch cables for an effects rack. So the more expensive cables wont necessarily sound any different, but are better quality.

Many years ago, DIY effects guru Craig Anderton did some tests on small patch cables, and actually found the cheap ones with the molded on plugs had lower capacitance than the expensive ones with the metal plugs! So he said that the cheap can sound better, even if they aren't made as well. I had a batch of those cables with the molded on plugs and they lasted me a good 15-20 years before they started getting noisy. But that was being handled a lot. In a rack they might have lasted longer.

[bass07]

Thanks, that info was a lot more helpful. If you do hear of anyone who has tested the two, or if you get a chance to run some of those tests yourself, let me know what you find.