Fender '51 RI - which schematic !!

7string · #1 06-17-2007, 04:43 PM

OK, so the bass is a '51 re-issue. 1 p/u, 1 volume, 1 tone what could possible go wrong.

Here's the deal..

I bought this bass through eBay and straight away I noticed that the bass urgently needed some fret work and a setup. With this done, I thought I'd treat it to a new scratchplate (the old one was a mess !!), the cool metal covers and a new SD pickup.

The pickup and controls were working fine, I just wanted to have a more balanced sound.

Along with the SD pickup comes the schematic, real easy to follow. I open up the bass and the wiring bears no relation to it at all, caps are different values, wires are attached to different lugs etc, so I tried to chase down the original Fender diagram, then I figure I can just put the pickup in...

Only I couldn't find the appropriate diagram on Fender's site. I did compare it to the Mike Dirnt diagram. but even that is different (the cap is the same value but wired to different points).

So, I've got 2 choices. Either just swap the pickup out or re-wire as per the diagram supplied by Seymour Duncan.

Any advice/views you could give would be gratefully received !!

Jim Carr · #2 06-17-2007, 04:49 PM

I'd start with a straight Pup swap, myself. Get that working. Who knows,
it might be just what you want.

Then, map out the existing harness, while we all try to find you a schematic....I've got one for a '55 P somewhere....

Finally, rewire if you want to once you have the right diagram (or use the SD plan).

Jim Carr · #3 06-17-2007, 05:16 PM

Drat! I can't find my diagram (I may have deleted it), but I do have a slightly blurry photo of a real '52 P-bass's wiring, if you want it. It may take me until tomorrow to upload it...

7string · #4 06-17-2007, 05:46 PM

That would be great. Much appreciated !!

Jim Carr · #5 06-17-2007, 07:11 PM

IIRC, this came off of evil-bay when a very nice '52 was being auctioned as "all original." I have my doubts about the solder joints, but who knows?

I'm not sure this will be of any use, but here it is:

7string · #6 06-21-2007, 02:58 AM

Thanks for posting that Jim. I'll be able to work with that !!

shooter_mi · #7 06-21-2007, 07:57 AM

Here's a schem. For what it's worth, There are certainly some differences between the pic Jim posted and the wiring in my 51 reissue. I'm just saying that from memory, as I don't have the guitar in front of me right now.

kevin_lindsay · #8 06-21-2007, 09:49 AM

My bass

Jim Carr · #9 06-21-2007, 08:08 PM

Kevin---You are just plain cool!

Is this factory wiring (looks like it), or are there mods?
It looks quite good, IMHO. I think you told me what vintage
this '51 RI is, but can you remind me? I think the pots say 38th week of '05.
Thanks!

kevin_lindsay · #10 06-21-2007, 10:51 PM

The pic I posted is the control cavity of the truly wonderful "relic" tribute P-Bass John Elliot at Bravewood made of my favourite P-Bass (my old mid 50's just like Sting's - but without the horrendous "hole" worn away under the G-string!! hahahaha. Also, the original's are getting a bit too valuable to be battered around in a stage setting - well, that happens every now and again, but for the most part they are at home or in the studio).

Anyhow - CTS pots - and a cap which John made himself to replicate the old ones - a nice touch especially as you don't get to see it unless you remove the control cover.

He also added an earthing ground wire to the single coil pickup just like the original P-basses.

If you want to see the bass being made - here it is on John's website:
http://www.bravewoodguitars.co.uk/Bu...%20a%20BW.html

7string · #11 06-22-2007, 02:10 PM

I've just read the build diary of the bass. Simply amazing how much time and effort went into building and then distressing a copy of this Fender classic !!

I've checked the wiring and it's the same a I have in the reissue, which differs from the diagram supplied with my Seymour Duncan pickup. Just for fun, I might re-wire it and see if it makes any difference !!

I'm not really a P or J fan, but I do like the early P basses. I don't really know why though...

Jim Carr · #12 06-22-2007, 02:29 PM

+1

Thanks, Kevin!
Now I have gas for a bass I already own...is that possible???

kevin_lindsay · #13 06-22-2007, 04:59 PM

I just have gas.... all the time - I think I need to change my diet! hahahahaha

And as for the pic diary of my replica being made - check out the scratchplate - you can see how John made the first one, then changed before the relic stage, as the contour wasn't correct below the control plate. The only thing he wasn't happy with was the size of the string ferrules - they should have been larger - he simply used standard ones as he didn't have suitable sized rods to drill out on the lathe at the time. Everything else - spot on!!!

And as for the wear on Sting's bass I mentioned - have a look inder the G string where Sting rests his hand - YOWZA!!!
http://www.rocknroll.net/gallery/sti.../img_9720.html

Jim Carr · #14 06-22-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin_lindsay

I just have gas.... all the time - I think I need to change my diet! hahahahaha

And as for the pic diary of my replica being made - check out the scratchplate - you can see how John made the first one, then changed before the relic stage, as the contour wasn't correct below the control plate. The only thing he wasn't happy with was the size of the string ferrules - they should have been larger - he simply used standard ones as he didn't have suitable sized rods to drill out on the lathe at the time. Everything else - spot on!!!

And as for the wear on Sting's bass I mentioned - have a look inder the G string where Sting rests his hand - YOWZA!!!
http://www.rocknroll.net/gallery/sti.../img_9720.html

I so love it that John "Carved Metal." What an amazing man!

About the the wear in Sting's alder, I was starting to do that to the top of mine (though not comparing myself to Sting, even in that area). Never-the-less, I had to have my restorer, RSguitarworks, shave down the top of the bass about 3/32nds of an inch or so to get it flat. All the wear was under the pickguard, and so is hidden in all those "before" photos you may have seen, by the pickguard---which, like Sting, I distained for many a year. Now you can't see the wear, even with the guard off. It was not too late for mine...

I have the original (though rewound) pup, but no sign of the grounding lead. Yet, I am now even MORE tempted (as I said before) to try it!

How does it affect your instrument?

Not sure how to start that conversation with my luthier....

kevin_lindsay · #15 06-22-2007, 11:31 PM

Having been able to try the bass out with and without the chrome cover (on original and replica), there is a difference in sound. With the cover on, the sound is slightly fuller - more emphasis on the bottom end - BIG sound.

Without the cover, the sound has more of a "toppy" bias - does that make sense? Next time I am doing some recording, I'll do a couple of short examples to illustrate the difference.

The biggest problem with having the cover on, is the way it intrudes on your usual playing style - big obstacle directly over the strings kinda gets in the way. Also, with teh cover off, the earh wire is left hanging around ot of the cavity

7string · #16 06-24-2007, 09:35 AM

I wonder how long it'll be until Fender sell a Sting relic, complete with all the wear spots and costing a huge amount of money....