Help, I need more punch and presence from my P

[walterw]

Originally Posted by bob atherton

I own 4 basses and to be honest only one of the four gives me exactly the tone I am after.

well don't be coy, tell us what this bass is that actually sounds like you want it to!

Originally Posted by bob atherton

The TH, I hope , with its mid sweep will get me into areas that I have not been able to reach before

EQ won't really turn one bass into another, it's only one piece of the tone puzzle.

[Kazoo_Legend]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Before we can go too far down this road, three questions simply must be answered.

1) What strings?
2) What amp do you use live? Speakers? PA support or no?
3) Is the tone knob wide open on your bass?

Without this information, it's really impossible to know what the problem could be or how/if pickups will get you where you want to go.

Thank you.

+1 to strings. I personally think they are very underrated when it comes to tone output. I installed a Duncan QP pickup, removed and bypassed the tone knob altogether as I never really like what the P sounded like with the tone knob turned down, and then slapped some Dean Markley Blue Steel strings on it. These strings are the brightest, twangiest punchiest strings I've ever played. Due to the natural muddy warmth of the P, they balance out perfect for me along with the passive QP.

+1 to Aguilar TH. I use an Aguilar TH500 for my head and have also found this combination to finally give me the tonal range I've been looking for. Everyone's got their ballpark tone narrowed down to a line drive, but we all play in different stadiums.

[bob atherton]

OOOps forgot to mention strings...

I now use TI flats on the P, used to use DR lo-riders (nickle)

My other basses are...

Fender USA Jazz Standard, natural ash with maple neck, DR lo-riders. This one nails the tone I'm after.

Fender USA 62RI Jazz, DR lo-riders, this one gets in the ball park but need a touch more mid/Jaco to nail it.

MM Sterling (USA) TI flats. This one plays itself the neck is soooo good but never quite managed to get the tone. This one needs more scale, if you like.

[jason1980's]

I had a Dimarzio Willpower P. If you want to stick out more in the mix then this will definately help out. Very midrangy and it really grunts and grinds. Can be pretty harsh sounding though, a little too much for my taste. To me it also has a more "modern" sound than Fender's P pickups, wasn't really what I wanted.

So I switched to the 62 Fender P pickup after I saw these videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omxv493AD1Q Bass starts at 4:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3k5zbWzNo Bass starts at 1:38

And he is using light gauge Rotosound Flatwounds, I wish I could get that awesome sound and punch out of them like he can.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by bob atherton

Fender USA Jazz Standard, natural ash with maple neck, DR lo-riders. This one nails the tone I'm after.

there it is, then. P basses won't sound like jazz basses. (at least they won't sound like anything except maybe the jazz neck pickup by itself, and even then it's different.)

[rubbadubdub]

+1 on that. No point trying to modify a p to get a j tone apart from maybe fitting a j bridge pickup. It would still not sound like a j tho. If it records well as you said, then you should leave well alone and look at your live setup and the way you eq maybe. Try reducing some deep lows especially if you are in boomy sounding room or using basic pa gear. If you already have ' the tone' from your jazz, then maybe you just prefer jazz basses. Each to their own. I think you would waste a lot of money swapping pick ups..chasing rainbows. It's easy to become insecure about how a bass sounds. Marketing exploits these human insecurities to convince us that there is something we are missing out on and there will be plenty of opinions online to confuse you even more. It sounds to me like you have agreat p bass. My advice would be to accept it for what it is or get an aggressive pickup such as a Duncan quarter pounder and call it a day.

[jbrew73]

Originally Posted by jason1980's

I had a Dimarzio Willpower P. If you want to stick out more in the mix then this will definately help out. Very midrangy and it really grunts and grinds. Can be pretty harsh sounding though, a little too much for my taste. To me it also has a more "modern" sound than Fender's P pickups, wasn't really what I wanted.

So I switched to the 62 Fender P pickup after I saw these videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omxv493AD1Q Bass starts at 4:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3k5zbWzNo Bass starts at 1:38

And he is using light gauge Rotosound Flatwounds, I wish I could get that awesome sound and punch out of them like he can.

I can't believe that sound is actually coming from a p bass. I would have bet$100 it was a jazz.

[bassgod0dmw]

I don't think the flats are helping you on the P or the Sterling.

[Alban]

+1 for the Dimarzio Will Power!

I sometimes find myself toning down on my Attitude 3 bass because it's just too much for some songs (sometimes I swap to my flatwound-clad Road Worn P for that). And yes, flatwounds might give some thump but you may lose a lot of presence in the mix, depending on your musical style of course.

[KeithKlaxwell]

Fralin pickups, they're in my P which is used on the vast majority of my LA session tracks

[bob atherton]

Originally Posted by bassgod0dmw

I don't think the flats are helping you on the P or the Sterling.

I used to use Lo-Riders on both these basses but now prefer the flats.

[bob atherton]

Originally Posted by walterw

there it is, then. P basses won't sound like jazz basses. (at least they won't sound like anything except maybe the jazz neck pickup by itself, and even then it's different.)

I think you've got me wrong on this.

I want all four basses to sound quite different. I want the P to sound like a great P. I know in my mind how I want all four to sound and the only one that has nailed that so far is the Jazz Standard. The 62RI is a close second.

There would be no point in trying to get all the basses to sound the same.

[TexasTodd]

Originally Posted by jason1980's

I had a Dimarzio Willpower P. If you want to stick out more in the mix then this will definately help out. Very midrangy and it really grunts and grinds. Can be pretty harsh sounding though, a little too much for my taste. To me it also has a more "modern" sound than Fender's P pickups, wasn't really what I wanted.

So I switched to the 62 Fender P pickup after I saw these videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omxv493AD1Q Bass starts at 4:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3k5zbWzNo Bass starts at 1:38

And he is using light gauge Rotosound Flatwounds, I wish I could get that awesome sound and punch out of them like he can.

Do we know the rest of his setup? Amp and pedals?

[bassgod0dmw]

Originally Posted by bob atherton

I used to use Lo-Riders on both these basses but now prefer the flats.

But you're saying you aren't getting the sound you want. To me, strings are one of the biggest influences in tone and the easiest/cheapest to change first.

Did the Lo-Riders give you a sound more to your liking than the flats?

If the flats are brand new I could see them having some punch or presence, but once they start to break in I'd say that's going to be gone. I like a fairly aggressive tone and flats never did it for me. There is a big mentality around here that P's need to have flats on them. They don't.

[bob atherton]

Originally Posted by bassgod0dmw

But you're saying you aren't getting the sound you want. To me, strings are one of the biggest influences in tone and the easiest/cheapest to change first.

Did the Lo-Riders give you a sound more to your liking than the flats?

If the flats are brand new I could see them having some punch or presence, but once they start to break in I'd say that's going to be gone. I like a fairly aggressive tone and flats never did it for me. There is a big mentality around here that P's need to have flats on them. They don't.

The flats have been on for about a year so are not new! I prefer the sound of the TI flats on the P as it gave me more mid focus and better fundamentals. The Lo-Riders had more harmonics around the notes but lost out on the pitch of the fundamental IMHO.

I am hoping that when the Aguilar TH arrives I will get a good sound from all of my basses and will make careful notes of the TH set-up for each bass. Then I can decide which bass would suit whatever gig and get into the tonal ball park by dialing in the preferred settings for that bass.

This all works in theory, let's see how it works out in real life!

I know that P's don't need to have flats. Just listen to John Entwistle! If I want a little aggression and top end zing I use my Jazz Standard. That bass can give me an almost Marcus Miller tone.

[AdamR]

Toss aq set a Hi Beams on the P bass. It will cut through.

[AdamR]

You may have been better off with something like the VT Deluxe were you can set 6 presets. This way you can dedicate one to each bass and not have to tweal your pedal if you switch.

[jason1980's]

Originally Posted by TexasTodd

Do we know the rest of his setup? Amp and pedals?

Well he is actually a flamenco style guitarist and the way he gets his guitar sound is unbelievable, very very technical how he gets his sound he has to be some professional technician or something.

But for bass he mostly ran it clean I think usually no effects and pretty no nonsense although at the end of that first video he did turn on some distortion pedal. No bass amps whatsoever, I have never heard Mike ever use one his whole career, he always ran his basses through that old old style really heavy natural wood colored 70's PA system you can see the speakers/cabinet in in the back in that first video, I wish I knew more about what exactly those speakers were. Besides that just basically light gauge Rotosound Flatwounds and mute picking.

Mike's sound on any instrument is very hard to copy, it is the way he plays his instruments that gives him that one of a kind sound, even when he plays acoustic guitar you can undeniably tell it is him. As demonstrated in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMap2mTrVu8

Same applies to his electric guitar sound I was talking about, it couldn't be more unique. The first video Taurus 1 2/2 I posted, back it up to 3:20 to hear that guitar sound that leads into that bass part.

I have tried and tried to get his bass sound only to not come close, that is one of my favorite sounds and it is awesome to know that a Precision bass is capable of that kind of sound, but it must be all in the hands.

[bob atherton]

Originally Posted by AdamR

You may have been better off with something like the VT Deluxe were you can set 6 presets. This way you can dedicate one to each bass and not have to tweal your pedal if you switch.

Adam, you could be right, but I was just knocked out by this you tube video about the TH.

The guy has an OK sounding '69 P bass and at the end of his tweaking trough the TH, when he does the mid band sweep, I just went THAT's IT! That is the sound that I'm after. We will see....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H-G7XXSWmI

[Richard Sabines]

Originally Posted by jason1980's

I had a Dimarzio Willpower P. If you want to stick out more in the mix then this will definately help out. Very midrangy and it really grunts and grinds. Can be pretty harsh sounding though, a little too much for my taste. To me it also has a more "modern" sound than Fender's P pickups, wasn't really what I wanted.

So I switched to the 62 Fender P pickup after I saw these videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omxv493AD1Q Bass starts at 4:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3k5zbWzNo Bass starts at 1:38

And he is using light gauge Rotosound Flatwounds, I wish I could get that awesome sound and punch out of them like he can.

It sounds pretty cool, but actually it doesn't sound anything specially different than a good p bass and a good set of flats(the classic combo)

That sound is the easiest to obtain from a good p bass,
like this as well:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1CUr...O26w&index=224


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WybWi...O26w&index=222