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  #1  
Old 10-01-2010, 08:12 AM
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I think I prefer ceramic over alnico? (blog)

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(First off, I just want to give major props to Brian @ Best Bass Gear, and the customer service at Nordstrand)

Recently, I was looking to "upgrade" my SR5.
Now before the EBMM people blow a blood vessel.....
My SR5 came used with a Duncan preamp and Duncan pickup.
*now you EBMM people can blowup....since gutting a Stingray is blasphemy *
Anyway, I dug the bass a lot but couldn't get the tones I wanted or expected.
I decided that since I liked the SR5 so much, it was worth dropping some coin on "better" components.....or at least get closer to the classic stock 'Ray tone.

First I decided to replace the pickup. Since I automatically assumed the 2 coil Duncan was "meh". The Nordstrand MM5.3 seemed like the perfect replacement. So I ordered one from Best Bass Gear....since they're rare used. Got the MM5.3, and installed it.
It did not function properly. After some research, the SD preamp was not intended to be used with the 3-coil pickup. So I just shelved the MM5.3 for a few months. Screw it. Too many gigs to have a bass out of use.

Anyway, so I started to favor a J bass for a while, and thought it was a perfect time to figure what the heck was up with the SR5 and the nordy. Re-installed it. Still wasn't functioning right. Low output, etc.....

I thought it was the preamp. Since the SD site specifically says not to use it with the 3 coil pickups.
Since I wanted to replace the SD preamp, I decided to order the John East MM preamp.

Got the East preamp, and installed it with the MM5.3.
Still wasn't working properly. same symptoms as before.

Contacted Brian @ BBG and he told me to test it directly to the jack.
Did that. Still not right. Series mode didn't work at all. Still low output.
He advised me to send it in to Nordstrand to be tested.
Sent it in and waited.

In the mean time, I put the SD pickup back in.

Wow......sounds great!
Works with the 3 way switch as it should.....full output!

Gigged with it for a while. couldn't be happier.

I get the call from Nordstrand saying my pickup was tested, and it appears to be 100% functional. What the heck!?
They send me a brand new one, just to be sure.
Cool.

Eagerly await it's arrival, and install it the day it arrives.
SAME THING! low output, and sounds like crap.

Call Brian @ BBG again.
Sent the pickup back to him, and he tested it.
He found the same issues I did, and contacted Nordstrand himself. They discovered that something wasn't right, and could possibly discontinue the MM5.3 because of the constant support requests. (I'm not downgrading Nordstrand at all, as an engineer, I understand)

So in the end, it was decided that they'd just send me a MM5.4 instead.
perfect. I just want my stingray to sound good, and work in all 3 switch positions.

At this point, I was still gigging with the SD pickup and East preamp and digging the tones.

Get the MM5.4. Wire it up.

First thing I notice is the lower output. The tone is good, but much lower output and slightly muted. I was worried about the MM5.4 sounding dark, since it features the hum canceling design. It's really not that dark, but darker than the SD pickup.
Actually, I would say the Nordstrand has a lot more fat low end to it. In a vintage way. The Nordy is very vintage sounding.
I've never had the opportunity to play a vintage Stingray, and I'm sure the way I'm using my SR5 is much different than most......so I cannot compare.
Obviously my preamp settings changed a lot from the SD to Nordy. I was bumping up the lows and mids a lot less. kicking up the highs more than ever. With that you can note the differences between the two pickups.

My point is, I think I prefer the ceramic SD pickup over the alnico Nordstrand pickup. Not the outcome I had expected.
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  #2  
Old 10-01-2010, 06:33 PM
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Ceramics can be very very good to downright excellent. Though some have a harshness to the treble, others dont. Glad you got the SD ;pup working right. Itd be one of my top picks for that type pup.
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2010, 06:50 PM
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Do you guys really think that sublety of tone really makes a difference in the total band sound?
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassistForHire View Post
Do you guys really think that sublety of tone really makes a difference in the total band sound?
Is it really that subtle? My mind has always made the analogy of alnico:ceramics:.tubes:ss.
  #5  
Old 10-01-2010, 07:11 PM
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Some pickup differences are far from subtle... And yeah, I can totally see a pickup swap being noticeable. I replaced a Bart mm pup in 44-02 with the Nord mm4.2 I gained detail that was noticeable to me and punch that was noticeable to my bandmates.

Far as ceramic v alnico. In general I prefer alnico as I'm looking for 'fat punch'. I do believe that it is the over all pickup design however of which the magnet material is but one component. I'm fully on board with Pete Biltoft's designs these days. He get's what I'm looking for and builds that. I find it to be a real advantage to work with someone that builds to order as opposed to someone selling off the shelf...

I just received an interesting prototype set from Pete. J pickups with height adjustable swappable pole pieces. They have Alnico V installed and came with a set of Alnico III. I have to do some samples with these asap as I'm hugely interested to hear The difference.
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  #6  
Old 10-01-2010, 07:21 PM
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Wait..so..I'm lost ...you didn't want the SD, cuz you couldnt get the tones you wanted or expected,tried a different pickup..so on -n- so on...

Now you love the SD?

(I do enjoy a good SD, just , the story unfolded...strangely..No offense meant. )
  #7  
Old 10-01-2010, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstorm View Post
Ceramics can be very very good to downright excellent. Though some have a harshness to the treble, others dont. Glad you got the SD ;pup working right. Itd be one of my top picks for that type pup.
I just put the SD back in after playing the Nordstrand, and deciding it definitely wasn't for me.

Maybe the MM5.4 is meant for a stock EBMM preamp?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BassistForHire View Post
Do you guys really think that sublety of tone really makes a difference in the total band sound?
To the audience, no.
To me, yes.
To the band, 50/50.
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  #8  
Old 10-01-2010, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFclef View Post
Is it really that subtle? My mind has always made the analogy of alnico:ceramics:.tubes:ss.
Same here....

Actually, I don't know if the SD pickup is ceramic or alnico?
There are no markings on it at all.
I just assumed since the output was fairly hot, it was ceramic?

All I know is the SD sounds better in my SR5 than the Nordy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassdirty View Post
Wait..so..I'm lost ...you didn't want the SD, cuz you couldnt get the tones you wanted or expected,tried a different pickup..so on -n- so on...

Now you love the SD?

(I do enjoy a good SD, just , the story unfolded...strangely..No offense meant. )
I didn't care for the tone of the SD preamp and SD pickup. Somewhat dark/flat.

I first thought I'd swap out the pickup (assuming it was the "cheap" SD pickup causing my "meh-ness") for a tonal change.
Ordered the Nordy.
Had to go through a bunch of messing around with returning and replacing.

In the mean time, I came into some cash and bought the East preamp......
Drastic tonal change for the better.

Had to use the East preamp and the SD pickup....since I was waiting on the Nordy replacement pickup(s).

Installed the Nordy and wasn't impressed.

For me, the SD pick up and the East preamp are perfect for each other.

With the nordy, personally, I didn't find it all that flexible or toneful.
With the SD, I can dial in classic 'Ray tones, decent facsimiles of P and J tones.

I'm selling the Nordy, and sticking with the SD.
Which is why I'm surprised.

My overall point being, don't automatically assume alnico will be the tone key/secret.
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Last edited by JoshuaTSP : 10-01-2010 at 08:12 PM.
  #9  
Old 12-30-2010, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaTSP View Post
Actually, I don't know if the SD pickup is ceramic or alnico?
There are no markings on it at all.
I just assumed since the output was fairly hot, it was ceramic?
sorry to bring up an old thread...

But when you look at the bottom of the SD pickup, do you see individual pole pieces or a bar magnet going across?

In an Alnico pickup, the pole pieces ARE the magnets. In a Ceramic magnet, the poles are steel (iron) and there's a magnet going across them all at the bottom.

for example:
Carvin Alnico pickup:


Dean Ceramic pickup:
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  #10  
Old 12-30-2010, 10:47 PM
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That is pickup design, not material. You can have ceramic pole designs as well as alnico bttom bar designs...
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  #11  
Old 12-31-2010, 12:12 AM
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Who makes them that way? I've never seen it. Probably pretty rare, though...?
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  #12  
Old 12-31-2010, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Mal View Post
That is pickup design, not material. You can have ceramic pole designs as well as alnico bttom bar designs...
You can have ceramic pole designs, but you won't find any ceramic rod magnets to build it.

As you said, plenty of guitar pickups use alnico bar magnets, like Gibson HB's and P-90s.
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