Jack Casady Electar P/U (logistics)

bkeating · #1 10-21-2007, 08:07 AM

hey guys,

i've had the casady bass for about 2 months now and absolutely love it. live sound is great and it's been fantastic for recording as well. my ears are helping me out with the different personalities of pickup but my brain is asking for a little more.

i was wondering if anyone could explain the theory of the variable 50, 250, 500 switch so i might be able to understand the sounds better. i've searched and read a bit about the 250 and 500 style pots and from playing i've found that i like the 500 with the tone knob rolled down to about 2.5 - yet i've heard that doing that is similar to running the 250 pot with tone at full (?) i don't know if this is true because it doesn't really sound as thick. i've also heard that running the lower setting at 50 with high amp volume might get a "better" sound than the 500 with low volume. the problem is i like to judge the tones at low amp volumes as i feel when the volume gets higher i have trouble hearing the sublties. that being said, is their any way to understand how this all works electronically or in theory. the sound i like to get is something really thick and full. i've been getting that with the 500 setting but sometimes it gets too grindy (i could be digging in too hard as well) so i was wondering if the same signal sound could be achieved with the 50 and louder amp volume.

just for fun, you can hear a clip of it in action on a recorded version of rocket man on myspace - 250 setting with volume and tone all the way up through a U5. www.myspace.com/shanehines

thanks!

bk

Nighttrain1127 · #2 10-21-2007, 10:57 PM

I believe that that switch changes the capacitance load not the resistive load. It is like changing caps in the tone pot for a darker sound but there is a transformer involved in the circuit also for Load matching so the vol level doesn ot jump around.

Lobster11 · #3 10-24-2007, 01:28 PM

Check out the interview with Jack here:

http://www.gibson.com/whatsnew/press...001/feb6a.html

He explains his long-time affinity for low-impedence pickups and the richer, more nuanced tones they provide. This is clearly what he was going for with the pickup in his sig bass, and the 50 setting is where it's at. I think the varitone switch was more like an afterthought to provide a little more versatility, but switching to 250 and then 500 moves you away from the unique characteristics of low-impedence pups that he was going for, and toward the tonal characteristics of more typical hot pickups. I suspect that if you asked Jack, he would recommend using the 50 setting and turning up the amp. I almost never switch out of 50 on mine.

As for technical details, a review in Jazz Times magazine, which you can link to from jackcasady.com, explains that:

"Unlike traditional Gibson Varitone circuits that employed capacitors and resistors to shape the frequency response of the signal, the Casady uses a three-position transformer to vary the impedance load and allows for voicings I would characterize as full-frequency warm-dark." (Whatever THAT means.)

62bass · #4 10-24-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobster11

Check out the interview with Jack here:

http://www.gibson.com/whatsnew/press...001/feb6a.html

He explains his long-time affinity for low-impedence pickups and the richer, more nuanced tones they provide. This is clearly what he was going for with the pickup in his sig bass, and the 50 setting is where it's at. I think the varitone switch was more like an afterthought to provide a little more versatility, but switching to 250 and then 500 moves you away from the unique characteristics of low-impedence pups that he was going for, and toward the tonal characteristics of more typical hot pickups. I suspect that if you asked Jack, he would recommend using the 50 setting and turning up the amp. I almost never switch out of 50 on mine.

As for technical details, a review in Jazz Times magazine, which you can link to from jackcasady.com, explains that:

"Unlike traditional Gibson Varitone circuits that employed capacitors and resistors to shape the frequency response of the signal, the Casady uses a three-position transformer to vary the impedance load and allows for voicings I would characterize as full-frequency warm-dark." (Whatever THAT means.)

Right. I was wondering about all the talk about capacitors. It is a transformer used with 3 different taps. That was all explained when that bass first came out. I preferred the 50 ohm setting myself. Good sounding bass but overpriced here in Canada, unless of course, you just have to have one.

Lobster11 · #5 10-26-2007, 06:29 AM

What kind of strings are using on your JC, bkeating? I ask because I find the difference in tone pretty noticeable across the three settings using Blue Steels (or, currently, the Nickel version of the Blue Steels). These are what Jack uses, and they seem to bring out the full range of tones and subtleties that the bass has to offer. I thought they seemed like an odd string choice for this bass -- it just seems to cry out for flats of some kind -- but it occurs to me that the effects of the varitone switch might be more evident with some kinds of strings than others. (I'm eager to try out some flats on it, but I love the tone so much as-is that I'm reluctant to change strings until it's absolutely necessary.)

rllefebv · #6 10-26-2007, 10:11 AM

I used the Nickel wrapped Blue Steels on my Casady for quite some time before I stupidly traded it away... It was gone for three years, but when I got it back in June, it still had the same strings that I traded it with!! (It was also dusty as hell and covered with fingerprints... Why do guitards treat a bass like a second-class instrument?)...

It's now wearing Chromes, and the differences in the settings are still very apparent. And yes, 50 is still the best!!

-robert

main_sale · #7 10-26-2007, 10:18 AM

I also keep mine on the 50 setting and I use D'Addario 1/2-rounds and am very pleased with them.

rllefebv · #8 10-26-2007, 11:53 AM

Nice bass main_sale!! Casady's are pretty

Has anyone seen the Miller High Life commercial where they go into the bar and the main guy talks into the mic? Nice Casady on the stand in the background... Wanna bet it's set to 50?

-robert

Lobster11 · #9 10-26-2007, 05:09 PM

rllefebv, how do you like the Chromes on the JC? I keep thinking about flats for mine, but haven't been sure which ones to go with. I'm too happy with the Nickel Steels to change them any time soon, but just thinking ahead...

rllefebv · #10 10-26-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobster11

rllefebv, how do you like the Chromes on the JC?

Well, it should be noted that most of my basses wear Chromes... It's a personal preference, but I love 'em. They speak very well on the Casady. Deep and old school sounding... The best rounds that I found for it are the ones that are currently sitting on yours... They mellow nicely with age and feel good on your fingers. Chromes are the same way, though it takes a week for 'em to feel really good to my fingers. Nickel is lovely!

Some folks swear by TI's and others dig the LaBella's... Both are great strings and worth a look.

-robert

pbass2 · #11 10-26-2007, 07:24 PM

Here's a relatively related question: I recently acquired a used Casady in black--love the sound. I actually have Labella flats on mine--sounds killer. Records wonderfully.
Regarding the pots--the TB'r I bought it from had it worked on by one of the best setup guys out here to try and smooth out the pots, and when I had my tech put the Labellas on(needed some bridge finessing to handle them) he thought the pots were OK, but not great. Both the Vol and Tone are not smooth--they have "jumps in them, from the "off" to "on" postion, and then not a very gradual range--they just kinda jump on, and then when you get near the full-on position, there's another little bump.
I've been told that this is because of the transformer, and that it's not possible for them to be completely smooth like even for example, a P-bass. is this true? I use my Vol knob alot live on my other basses for little swells and things, and this keeps me from using the JC this way . . . Plus, I find it hard to accept that JC himself would settle for that!

bkeating · #12 10-29-2007, 10:15 AM

thanks for all the help guys - it definitely seems like i need to explore the 50 setting a lot more. lately my go to setting is at 500 with the tone knob rolled down to about 2.5 or 3. i do agree with the last post stating how the tone and volume rolls don't seem to be great. one of my intents on posting this was to figure out what was going on with the electronis and see if i could update the pots with one of the upgrade kits from RS GuitarWorks. while i hear differences in the different settings, it seems that it is more along the lines of volume (gain?) while the tone knob in relation to the pickup has a lot of options. perhaps a really open tone control would really bring out the differences.

to answer lobsters question, i still have the strings that gibson shipped it with but am looking to switch to Labella flats or a heavy gauge Deep Talking set.

in any case, this bass still blows me away. i love the way the big body feels and aside from sounding great live, it has a great visual vibe too!

main_sale · #13 10-29-2007, 10:33 AM

Here's a "Father & Son" photo for your viewing enjoyment!

Stan Hinesley · #14 04-04-2008, 04:55 PM

Has anybody got a clear photo of the guts or a link to a schematic? I have a customer that is interested in me replicating the control. I have to admit I am very unfamiliar with this control as I was under the impression that it was a Varitone ala Gibson. Any help would be appreciated!