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  #1  
Old 04-29-2008, 09:21 PM
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Jazz bass pickups that don't cancel hum when used together

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I have a set of jazz bass pickups (Fender Original Jazz RI) that didn't cancel the hum like normal when both turned to full. They were installed in the bass with the leads wired opposite of each other (black to ground on one, white to ground on the other). They always sounded fine, except that they never canceled the noise when used together. On a whim I switched the leads on one, and now they cancel the hum, but sound out of phase. Is this normal for those pickups? Or did Fender get me?
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  #2  
Old 04-29-2008, 09:22 PM
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I kinda like that out of phase sound... maybe it's just what you get used to.
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  #3  
Old 04-29-2008, 09:27 PM
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You might have a pair of single coil pickups that aren't wire/magnet reversed from each other. In that case, you'd either have good tone + hum, or hum cancelling + thin tone.
  #4  
Old 04-29-2008, 09:40 PM
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I have a set of jazz pickups like that too ... to be hum canceling one pickup needs to be reverse wound and have the magnets reversed ...
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  #5  
Old 04-29-2008, 09:41 PM
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They were pulled from a Geddy Lee signature model. Are all of them that way?
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2008, 10:35 AM
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On a whim I switched the leads on one, and now they cancel the hum, but sound out of phase. Is this normal for those pickups?

Yep, It's normal.
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2008, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcy View Post
On a whim I switched the leads on one, and now they cancel the hum, but sound out of phase. Is this normal for those pickups?

Yep, It's normal.
Really? I always thought that J bass pickup pairs were all wound opposite of each other.
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  #8  
Old 04-30-2008, 06:31 PM
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Fender normally winds all their Jazz Bass pickups in the same direction but they reverse the leads at the end so that the signal is running through the coil as if it were reverse wound. You have to run single coils out of phase with each other to achieve a humbucking effect.
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  #9  
Old 04-30-2008, 07:02 PM
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Thanks.
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  #10  
Old 04-30-2008, 07:33 PM
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Nope this doesn't sound right. I have a MIM that cancels noise fully with both pickups on, and doesn't have the out of phase sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcy View Post
Fender normally winds all their Jazz Bass pickups in the same direction but they reverse the leads at the end so that the signal is running through the coil as if it were reverse wound. You have to run single coils out of phase with each other to achieve a humbucking effect.
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  #11  
Old 04-30-2008, 08:05 PM
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I thought that too, but I checked out the guy's site and he builds and restores pickups for a living. Hard to argue with someone like that.
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  #12  
Old 04-30-2008, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WarriorJoe7 View Post
Nope this doesn't sound right. I have a MIM that cancels noise fully with both pickups on, and doesn't have the out of phase sound.
they will always be slightly out of phase with each other. exactly like position 2 or 4 on a strat with a middle RWRP pickup.
  #13  
Old 04-30-2008, 08:52 PM
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Hey, My geddy had that problem too.

With full volume on both pickup, they didn't cancel the hum. But the bass sounded good anyway. Mine was crafted in 2004. I tried a Geddy in store last week, crafted in 2006, and there's no hum on it.

I guess there's must be a defect on that batch ??
  #14  
Old 04-30-2008, 09:01 PM
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I bought mine new in 2005.
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  #15  
Old 04-30-2008, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeddyisGod View Post
I bought mine new in 2005.
The serial number on my geddy was Q+5 digits. I guess it was made in 2002-2004. Maybe yours too
  #16  
Old 05-01-2008, 05:06 PM
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Nope this doesn't sound right. I have a MIM that cancels noise fully with both pickups on, and doesn't have the out of phase sound.

I apologize. I have been too short with my answer here. Allow me to go into a little more detail. In order for a standard jazz bass to archive a humbucking effect the pickups need to be RW/RP.

The RW part of that common pickup description mean Reverse Wound. This can be done one of two ways. Either "literally" wind one of the coils in the opposite direction of the first coil producing a clock wise and counter clockwise set of coils.
Or you can create a figuratively or "virtual" RW set as Fender does by simply winding both coils in the same direction but swap the leads so that black ground wire on coil one is connected to the start of the winding but the black ground wire is connected to the end of the winding on coil two.

Either of these scenarios will run the signal from one coil 180 degrees out of phase with the other coil. This mirror imaging of the signal (noise and all) is what cancels the 60 cycle hum. Neither method is superior as the signal doesn't care how it went backwards around the coil. It only cares that it DID.

Now, the second half of our acronym stands for "Reverse Polarity" and is referring to the magnetic charge of the pickup. One pickup should have a north pole facing the strings and the other should have the south pole facing the strings. If your magnets are not reversed you will get a much thinner sounding tone with both pickups on. They will sound nice and full and perhaps even louder with only one pickup on.

This can be the case when two bridge pickups or two neck pickups are installed in the same J bass.

To check your stock Fender pickups first check the magnets because it's easy and we can do that without taking anything apart or buying any fancy tools

. To check the magnetic polarity of the pickups just hold a simple compass like this one next to the bridge pickup.



The needle should point either directly at it or directly away from it. Now move the compass up to the neck pickup. The needle should reverse direction quickly. If it pointed North at the bridge pickup it should point South at the neck pickup. If the Compass tells you that both pickups have the same magnetizing polarity then you have found your problem. You either have two of the same pickup (neck or bridge) or the magnets were installed incorrectly on the line.

I suspect the former.

Now, let's check the windings. Loosen the strings and remove the 4 screws that hold the pickup in. Now be careful here. Lift the pickup out of the cavity enough to see which side of the bobbin the black wire is soldered too. Are the colors on the neck pickup opposite of the bridge pickup like this?



They should be. If they aren't than you have two of the same pickup and you need to swap one out for the proper one.
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2008, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeddyisGod View Post
On a whim I switched the leads on one, and now they cancel the hum, but sound out of phase. Is this normal for those pickups? Or did Fender get me?
The problem is simply that both pickup have the same magnet polarity. They should be opposite.

When they are opposite, that makes the two pickups out of phase, so then you either wind one coil reverse, or just swap the two wires when you hook it up.

Because the magnets are opposite, the out-of-phase wired pickups will now be in phase to the strings, but out of phase to noise.. and they buck the hum.

In your case both pickups are the same, so you only get noise cancelation when they are out of phase to the strings.

The magnet polarity needs to be changed on one pickup. Some pickup makers can recharge magnets.
  #18  
Old 05-01-2008, 08:21 PM
Four on the floor and nothing more!
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Moberly, MO
Mine is an R+ serial #, 2004-2005 run.

I did a magnet test, and the magnets are indeed the same polarity.

These are long bridge/short neck pickups, so they should be different.

Bummer, but oh well. I prefer the sound favoring the bridge pup anyway.
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  #19  
Old 05-02-2008, 01:55 AM
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I suppose one of the owners did a pup swap in the past. Thought they were getting a matched set, but got either two bridge or two neck pickups and installed them.
  #20  
Old 05-02-2008, 04:28 AM
Four on the floor and nothing more!
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Moberly, MO
Nope, I bought it new. I always thought a bit of noise was par for the course. I was so happy with every other aspect of the bass that I took it without worrying. Only now that the pickups are in an unshielded bass does it become any sort of a problem.
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