Jazz Shielding Pictorial (Big Images Warning) - Page 5

Modern Growl · #81 09-15-2005, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle Caldwell

You don't want two paths to ground - that's how loops occur. Either a wire or the copper. Not both. If you attach copper to the back of a pot, well, aside from being hard to take the plate off, I don't know how you'd attach the copper to the pot with the plate off to begin with.

you can connect the copper shielding to the back of a pot with a wire and solder.

I asked Mike Lull if it was redundant to have the copper touching the plate via the way you did it in the pictures AND having hte copper attacthed to a pot via wire and solder and he said no, it WOULDN't be redundant. he went on to say something about moisture too, so I just did both ground connections.

Lyle Caldwell · #82 09-15-2005, 10:39 AM

Well yeah, obviously you can run a wire from the pot to the shielding. I thought you meant a direct connection between the copper and a pot.

Moisture is one of the reasons NOT to have two ground paths - if moisture gets between the control plate and the copper, it is no longer as good a connection as there would be between the pot and the shielding (through a wire), and you could have a ground loop.

You have to remember that the possibility of a ground loop does not mean that you will have a ground loop. Your bass could be completely quiet at home or on many stages. But then you show up to a different venue and your bass buzzes like crazy.

It's better to have only the one path, as any electrician can tell you. I'm not arguing with Mike Lull, as he isn't directly in this conversation and (no offense to you) he's only hearing what I say, and I what he says, through you. Too much room for misinterpretation, however good your intentions are.

But this kind of thing isn't worth arguing about. Keep both connections and odds are you'll have a quiet bass for a long long time. And should you show up on a stage and get noise, just remember what I said, and you can clip a wire or peel back the copper in 10 seconds and get your quiet bass back.

Lyle Caldwell · #83 09-15-2005, 10:43 AM

That came across as too defensive - which was not my intent.

Let me rephrase - in most situations, "ground is ground," so having two ground paths isn't detrimental. But not in all situations. Just bear that in mind. If either ground path becomes compromised you could have an increase in noise.

And again, I'd like to suggest that if you use wires to ground the control plate, the negative lug on the output jack is a better choice than the back of a pot, because you can get a good mechanical connection between a wire and that lug even before soldering. In contrast, a wire is only held to the back of a pot by using solder as glue. Which means there is always the possibility of failure.

Modern Growl · #84 09-15-2005, 11:11 AM

Thanks Lyle, no offense taken... I'll keep everything in mind and experiment. Thanks for all your info.

I have another question. Whats the deal when this happens....

Touching the pole pieces on the pickups... you get a loud buzz. Neck or Bridge (Bridge is a slightly louder buzz) But every time my thumb or whatever finger touches the pole piece... there's this loud buzz....

whats up with that?

Lyle Caldwell · #85 09-15-2005, 11:18 AM

I've had that happen with some pickups, and not with others. I don't know why, or if every pickup has the same cause.

When I have a pickup that does that, I just put some clear nail polish on the polepieces and the problem is solved.

Modern Growl · #86 09-15-2005, 11:30 AM

thanks man. your one cool dude.

and again, no offense taken... were all just passionate about bass.

Modern Growl · #87 09-15-2005, 11:35 AM

alot of nail polish nor a little?

i was thinking maybe hot glue being its rubber... just a though. but i'm going to use nail polish.

one more quick question. What if it doesn't work? I've searched the forums and someone said it didn't work for them... then what do you think it could be?

Lyle Caldwell · #88 09-15-2005, 01:28 PM

Just enough to cover the exposed part of the polepiece. Won't affect the sound at all, but clear nail polish is nonconductive, so you won't get the noise.

I wouldn't use rubber cement, as it would glob on and could fall off easily. Nail polish will work with a thin coat, and won't come off unless you want it to (cotton swab and nail polish remover - a 3 second job).

If someone tried it and still gets noise, they did something wrong. Maybe they got nail polish with sparkles in it or something.

Modern Growl · #89 09-15-2005, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle Caldwell

Maybe they got nail polish with sparkles in it or something.

lol....

Funky Doctor · #90 09-30-2005, 09:55 PM

Ok. I figured I would put this in this thread, so here goes...

Wierdness. No noise whatsoever, but when ever the blend pot is dead centre, there is nothing. A fraction of a turn either side and I get sound. I am dead certain the pickups are not wired out of phase because the worked before (I forgot to ground the blend pot) but now it sound way different. I'm so confused.

Lyle Caldwell · #91 09-30-2005, 11:23 PM

When you turn the blend all the way to one side does the volume of one pickup go to zero and the other stay on? What blend pot are you using?

Funky Doctor · #92 09-30-2005, 11:43 PM

Yes one pickups goes to zero when the blend is all the way on one side. I am using a blend pot from stumac that I had laying around.

Funky Doctor · #93 10-01-2005, 01:50 AM

Ok, I tried swapping the leads of one pickups around, and it does the exact same thing. I'm so annoyed. No matter what I do it does the same thing. Always cuts out totally in the centre position. Also, there are 2 leads coming from each pickup. On of them reads nothing between any of the other 2 leads. I have grounded that lead on both pickups. I tried That lead in other places, ie, along with the "hot" lead, and still, no change. I'm SO confused.

needmoney · #94 10-01-2005, 05:26 AM

Lyle,

How would you go about shielding the neck pickup cavity on the newer Fender Jazz's where the cavity is routed larger than usual and is routed all the way to the cavity as opposed to being seperate.

Also when using pickups with 4 conductor wiring, (black,white,green,red) is it still possible to do the standard wiring and tape off the 2 extra wires as they won't be getting used.

Lyle Caldwell · #95 10-01-2005, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Hayes

Ok, I tried swapping the leads of one pickups around, and it does the exact same thing. I'm so annoyed. No matter what I do it does the same thing. Always cuts out totally in the centre position. Also, there are 2 leads coming from each pickup. On of them reads nothing between any of the other 2 leads. I have grounded that lead on both pickups. I tried That lead in other places, ie, along with the "hot" lead, and still, no change. I'm SO confused.

James,

You may have a bad blend pot, or you may have gotten the wrong kind of pot. Honestly, and kindly meant, I think you're in over your head. I would advise you to take your bass to a tech and have them sort it out.

If you could take photos maybe someone here can set you straight, but it's really difficult to sort out your problem without seeing the actual situation.

Lyle Caldwell · #96 10-01-2005, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by needmoney

Lyle,

How would you go about shielding the neck pickup cavity on the newer Fender Jazz's where the cavity is routed larger than usual and is routed all the way to the cavity as opposed to being seperate.

Also when using pickups with 4 conductor wiring, (black,white,green,red) is it still possible to do the standard wiring and tape off the 2 extra wires as they won't be getting used.

Just shield the cavity the same as any other cavity.

Yes, you can solder and tape two of the wires together to get a "standard" pickup. Check the manufacturer's website for the wiring scheme.

needmoney · #97 10-01-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle Caldwell

Just shield the cavity the same as any other cavity.

Yes, you can solder and tape two of the wires together to get a "standard" pickup. Check the manufacturer's website for the wiring scheme.

If I shield the whole cavity (neck pickup/control cavity) so it is all connected, do I still only need the small tab of copper foil coming out near the control plate?

And taping off the two pickup wires wouldn't cause any noise issues with the pickups?

Lyle Caldwell · #98 10-01-2005, 05:40 PM

Right and right.

needmoney · #99 10-01-2005, 05:45 PM

EDIT:

If I just use this diagram:

http://www.fender.com/support/diagra...131800APg2.pdf

But connect the ground lugs on the volume pots to the input lug (as well as the capacitor), and connect the negative pickup leads and the bridge ground to the ground lug in the control cavity (everything like your diagram), this will all work right?

Lyle Caldwell · #**100** 10-01-2005, 06:29 PM