Kent Armstrong vs Ken Smith pickups

Lincoln · #1 05-07-2009, 05:51 PM

How do these pickups compare? Are the similar? More to the point do the Armstrongs carry any of the Smith sound or is this another "urban talkbass myth".

JAUQO III-X · #2 05-07-2009, 05:53 PM

Do you know who makes Smiths pickups and to his specs?

spade2you · #3 05-07-2009, 06:11 PM

I was talking to Cliff Bordwell about some sort of 36"-33" fanned 6er with Smith pickups and Cliff pointed out that Kent Armstrong makes Ken Smith's pickups. Not sure about the pre-amp.

NickyBass · #4 05-07-2009, 06:20 PM

There are two different 'Kent Armstrong' pickups. Hand made: http://www.kentarmstrong-handmade.com/

And the 'stock' Kent Armstrong: http://www.kentarmstrong.com/

SGD Lutherie · #5 05-07-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spade2you

I was talking to Cliff Bordwell about some sort of 36"-33" fanned 6er with Smith pickups and Cliff pointed out that Kent Armstrong makes Ken Smith's pickups. Not sure about the pre-amp.

Armstrong has been making Smith pickups for about 20 years now.

You can see they are Armstrongs when you look at the bottoms. They use the same terminals.

But of course he winds them custom for Ken.

SGD Lutherie · #6 05-07-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spade2you

Not sure about the pre-amp.

The preamp is made by Haz Labs. They also made the preamps for Steinberger and Spector. I'm not sure if they still do for Spector though.

They also make a reissue of the MuTron + (though it's not an exact copy, like the real reissue).

davec · #7 05-08-2009, 01:46 AM

my 85 Smith is a Armstrong/Haz Labs

thanks for the Link Nicky I've wanted to do a full restore on my Smith and didn't know of the hand made site

Lincoln · #8 05-08-2009, 07:23 AM

AHA! A handmade site - sweet! I'll check it out!

Papazita · #9 05-08-2009, 07:30 AM

Kent custom makes pickups for several other builders as well. His son Aaron is based in the UK and handles a lot of their European clients (Chris Larkin, esh, among others).
I spoke with Kent several times about re-working the custom pickups in a Chris Larkin bass. Very nice guy. Completley able to transform your vague verbal description of a desired tone into exactly what you want!

Turns out our families were from the same small town in Ohio, too!

Lincoln · #10 05-08-2009, 07:39 AM

Anyone have any soundclips with these pickups?

spade2you · #11 05-08-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

The preamp is made by Haz Labs. They also made the preamps for Steinberger and Spector. I'm not sure if they still do for Spector though.

They also make a reissue of the MuTron + (though it's not an exact copy, like the real reissue).

Ahhhh, makes sense. I wonder if HAZ makes something with multiple mid frequencies.

stflbn · #12 05-08-2009, 08:54 AM

Here's clips from custom Kent Armstrong Jazz (neck) and MM (bridge) pickups that I did.
Applause for Kent Armstrong pickups!

And here's some clips that I did of custom Kent Armstrong Humbuckers that show Steels, Nickels and Elixir strings.
Kent Armstrong pickups & Aguilar OBP-3 soundclips

And here's another of the dual Humbuckers
http://artdroid.com/uploads/Schecter...Armstrongs.mp3

.

The Nameless · #13 05-08-2009, 09:12 AM

Kent Armstrong makes Smith pickups? Hmmm. I heard they come from a totally different source. Can anyone confirm? I'll have to tell my buddy he don't know jack. Terminals can be had anywhere, and I've played a couple basses wit Armstrong pickups. NO resemblance to my '95 Smith 6s tone. AT all. Not tryin to refute, but learn, and I'd like to know myself who makes them. The preamp could definitely be Haz-Lab. But I don't know bout that either, and new Smith 18v pres do have dip switches for different eq points.

spade2you · #14 05-08-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nameless

Smith 18v pres do have dip switches for different eq points.

Indeed, but not as convenient for switching on the fly.

Lincoln · #15 05-08-2009, 10:23 AM

Great clips - not exactly as fat as Smith and not quite as sizzley on the top end, but overall, very similar sound. And I suspect the woods of your instrument may have something to do with this, as well.

How much did the custom creations cost?

SGD Lutherie · #16 05-08-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nameless

Kent Armstrong makes Smith pickups? Hmmm. I heard they come from a totally different source. Can anyone confirm? I'll have to tell my buddy he don't know jack. Terminals can be had anywhere, and I've played a couple basses wit Armstrong pickups. NO resemblance to my '95 Smith 6s tone. AT all. Not tryin to refute, but learn, and I'd like to know myself who makes them. The preamp could definitely be Haz-Lab. But I don't know bout that either, and new Smith 18v pres do have dip switches for different eq points.

Look on Kent's web page:

http://www.kentarmstrong-handmade.com/index.html

See the Smith pickup (with no logo)?

It makes sense that he makes them, since they are very thin pickups, and he doesn't use a bobbin. He winds free standing coils.

Just because he makes Smith pickups doesn't mean his would sound like Smith pickups, unless you asked him to make them that way. The Korean made pickups are a different thing too.

True, you can get terminals anywhere, but these look like something he makes himself. All of his pickups have them. They are made from heavy gauge bent wire.

The preamp says HAZ right on it. See attached photo.

stflbn · #17 05-08-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lincoln

Great clips - not exactly as fat as Smith and not quite as sizzley on the top end, but overall, very similar sound. And I suspect the woods of your instrument may have something to do with this, as well.

How much did the custom creations cost?

I believe the two Humbuckers in EMG 40hz shaped pair cost me about $250 or so. The J/MM pme
s were non-stock pickup sized and cost more due to having to have custom molds made.

They're comparable in price to other pickups out there.

I'm not necessarily a huge proponent of Ken's pickups, but I guess up until a week ago both of my main basses had Ken's pickups in them. I still have the HH Schecter and will not be getting rid of it. I sold the J/MM Schecter only because I have a custom 5-string '51 TeleP coming in the next month or two. If I didn't I'd still be happily playing that J/MM bass.

An SX P-bass I'm currently reworking will receive Nordstrand MP4 and NJ4SE pickups, but only because I'm curious about them. I'd also contemplated putting Armstrong P/J into it.

.

.

SGD Lutherie · #18 05-08-2009, 02:46 PM

Oh another thing about Smith pickups... they are wired in parallel. That would partially explain the sparkly top end.

The Nameless · #19 05-08-2009, 04:55 PM

Thanks for all that info, David. My "name" David as well, and been wondering about all that stuff for years. That is quite interesting, may have more q's once I tell my friend that he was wrong. Heh. Now feel like a big myth destroyed, but I suppose the knowledge worth it, heh. Thanks.

SGD Lutherie · #20 05-08-2009, 05:16 PM

I get a lot of different basses and guitars in my shop all the time for repairs, setups, and stuff. I'm a gear head so I take pictures of everything, and measurements of pickups too.

You can't know too much info!