Marcus Miller bass pre upgrade: Aguilar or Sadowsky???

[trjazzluva05]

Hey everyone...I love my MM Jazz bass, and i want to upgrade the preamp to make it even better. i'm stuck between an Aguilar OBP-1 or Sadowsky with VTC. Want to go with the Aggie because i'm a big Aguilar gear fan. It comes pre-wired and is 185 dollars from bestbassgear.com. On the other hand, I recently got a chance to play friend's Schecter jazz bass with a Sadowsky pre and i loved the dynamics and headroom, it sounded sooo good!!!! Plus i would be getting a truly passive option with a tone knob on my MM. Only thing that bothers me its ill have no need for the switch so i would have to take it out, leaving a hole. Also it costs 240 dollars. I've never played the Aggie but i have a Tone Hammer so i would assume it sounds similar to that. Which one do you guys think i should go with???? i primarily play gospel, R&B, Rock, Pop and Jazz.

[MarTONEbass]

If you're going for the Marcus thing, I would think you would want the Sadowsky. He's the cat the originally modded his Jazz bass.

The Aguilar is a really nice pre, I have had a few, but some think they color the tone too much, and can get unusable at extreme settings.

Don't underestimate the passive tone option either, once you have it, you'll love it especially if you want to switch from a slap tone to a more bass heavy tone is a hurry.

Not sure what you mean about the extra hole, but you would probably be able to get a new control plate without the hole if it bothered you.

[trjazzluva05]

Originally Posted by MarTONEbass

If you're going for the Marcus thing, I would think you would want the Sadowsky. He's the cat the originally modded his Jazz bass.

The Aguilar is a really nice pre, I have had a few, but some think they color the tone too much, and can get unusable at extreme settings.

Don't underestimate the passive tone option either, once you have it, you'll love it especially if you want to switch from a slap tone to a more bass heavy tone is a hurry.

Not sure what you mean about the extra hole, but you would probably be able to get a new control plate without the hole if it bothered you.

Yeah i hear both preamps are very strong, but i'm leaning towards the Sadowsky. By the "hole" in my control plate, i mean from the passive/active switch due to the sadowsky pre not having a switch, but a knob.

[Lesfunk]

Marcus has a Bartolini in his... or at least he used to. I also believe it was Alex Aguilar with worked with Roger Sadowsky to develop the Sadowsky preamp.

[EscapeNote]

Lesfunk is right. Marcus bass has a Bartolini preamp, installed by Roger S. It's a very different sound than the Sadowsky.

I have basses with Bartolini, Aguilar and Sadowsky. Forced to choose, I'd probably keep the Sadowsky (but I'm thankful that I don't have to choose!).

The OBP-1 is indeed similar to the Sadowsky: same EQ idea, boost only at 40 hz and 4 khz. I asked Dave Boonshoft about it a couple of years back and he said that his preamp was more 'buffered'. In practical terms it sounds smoother to me, especially the top end. The Sadowsky preamp has a more present and open quality I think, but I I've had to learn the hard way not to overdo the use of either the bass or the treble controls.

[lowendgenerator]

Keeping a close eye on this thread. I love my MM, but it only has 2 sounds. Off and slap. I'd like to get a lil more flex from my knobs.

Anyone ever throw an Audere in a MM?

[rojo412]

You can easily add the Passive tone capability (aka VTC) to the Aguilar of your choice.

In the Marcus, you have essentially 5 holes. So do it this way:
Vol-Vol-Passive tone-Stacked bass/treble-active/passive switch.

The Passive tone would work in both modes.
It would fit without the need for major modification.
It would sound great.
It would cost less than the Sadowsky.

Have your cake and eat it too!

As for the Sadowsky, you could either swap out the switch pot for a regular pot and put the a/p switch in the hole OR run a series/parallel switch on the pickups and have a passive "oomph" switch.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Lesfunk

I also believe it was Alex Aguilar with worked with Roger Sadowsky to develop the Sadowsky preamp.

I used to think it was the same preamp, because the external units looked exactly the same. I met both of them (Roger and Alex Aguilar) back in the 90s when Aguilar's shop was down the hall from Rogers'. I was trying to get a job working for Roger, who's a very nice guy by the way.

Anyway, I asked Roger if they were the same preamps, and he said no. That doesn't mean that Alex didn't work with him on it.

The original external Aguilar preamp was in the exact same enclosure and all as the Sadowsky preamp, so I'd suspect that Aguilar was building them for Roger too.

[update]Right from Dave Boonshoft:

In the late 1980's, Roger Sadowsky used to work on my instruments. At that time, he was working with Alex Aguilar on a new preamp for his basses. I was testing what later became the Sadowsky preamp on gigs for Roger. I would give my feedback to Roger, and he would pass on the information to Alex. Roger introduced me to Alex, and we began talking. Alex and I really didn't have a formal relationship at that point.

http://www.instituteofbass.com/archi...light/aguilar/

This was the original Sadowsky preamp:

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Rickett Customs

And Nordstrand to manufacture it, if I recall correctly......

How do you figure? Nordstrand has been in business six years, and before that worked for Suhr Guitars and Azola Basses in CA. Roger was making his preamp in NYC since 1990. So there was no Nordstrand Guitars back then.

[Tigger Bangdang]

Love my Sadowsky 2 band with VTC in my Callowhill. It rocks.

[chuck norriss]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

This was the original Sadowsky preamp:

Is this the same or similar to the Martin & Co. Porta Con? Looks the same. I'm curious because I have the Porta Con and love it but I have no information on it other than it's for DB. I use it on elec bass. Thanks.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Rickett Customs

I'll explain,
Installed 2 nordy pres and a sadowsky pre around the same time, I can swear they were almost identical.........even wire colors.......perhaps not the older pres that pre-date nordy, perhaps it's all in my head then

Still, I wish I had the pics to illustrate it, they looked identical, same with the circuit boards.

Well the Sadowsky was around first, and was designed by Aguilar. If Nord had that design all this time I think they would have marketed it by now. Perhaps it's being made for Nord by the same manufacture?

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Rickett Customs

That is a novel question.........., who is it then? I'm actually curious .

Then again, if it is OEM through Nordstrand for sadowsky, it would not matter who came first.....it's irrelevant, things can be copied, remade, etc.

I think if it's an OEM than it's from Sadaowsky, since they had been making this for 21 years in one form or another, and it was originally designed by Alex Aguilar. Why would Sadowsky then change his popular preamp for something else? Nord has no history of designing preamps, and 21 years ago there was no Nordstand guitars.

The question is who designed it for Nord?

[PDK]

All I can tell you is I have the sadowsky pre in my Marcus Miller and I love it. I also have the Sadowsky singles. It's a great combo.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Rickett Customs

I would have assumed the opposite.
Nordstrand, is associated with making pickups and pre's, most folks associate the name as such (although they're not limited to)

Much like Sadowsky uses dimarzios, duncans, EMG and Nordy for pickups.
IIRC, the dimarzios are OEM for sadowsky (extra windings).

For as many electrical engineers as there are in the world, somebody designed it, wouldn't know who though.

Note: When I'm referring to "Make", i'd be referring to "manufacture", not necessarily "design".

But they just started making a preamp fairly recently. Making pickups is a very different thing. Plus, they haven't been making pickups for as long as Roger has been selling preamps. They started making pickups when I started making pickups.

I see no reason why Roger would stop using the preamp he had since 1990 and then go to a new company for a preamp. Roger has his pickups made by Duncan and Dimarzio, two companies that have been doing it since the 70s. So why would he need to go to a company that has been around six years?

I don't see any reason why Roger's onboard preamp is any different from the one designed by Aguilar in the late 80s. That's the tone he's known for.

[Rickett Customs]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

But they just started making a preamp fairly recently. Making pickups are a very different thing. Plus, they haven't been making pickups for as long as Roger has been selling preamps. They started making pickups when I started making pickups.

I see no reason why Roger would stop using the preamp he had since 1990 and then go to a new company for a preamp. Roger has his pickups made by Duncan and Dimarzio, two companies that have been doing it since the 70s. So why would he need to go to a company that has been around six years?

I don't see any reason why Roger's onboard preamp is any different from the one designed by Aguilar in the late 80s. That's the tone he's known for.

Ok, so to skip the back and forth, someone is making these pre's regardless, who?......I'm not sure. I will delete my previous posts. Just seemed that the nordy pre and sadowsky pre were very similar.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Rickett Customs

Ok, so to skip the back and forth, someone is making these pre's regardless, who?......I'm not sure. I will delete my previous posts. Just seemed that the nordy pre and sadowsky pre were very similar.

Jason, they might be, who knows! I'm just assuming that Roger was making it first. Clearly he has it made for him. He doesn't do it in house. He also doesn't do the woodworking or finishing in house, at least not back when I was there.

This is like Hazlabs. They make preamps for Steinberger, Smith, and Spector. So maybe the same company is making them for Sadowsky and Nord.

[Sadowsky]

We have been using the same preamp circuit since 1990. The circuit was designed by myself and Alex Aguilar. Prior to this, I used the Bartolini TCT, which is what I put in Marcus Miller's Fender. All of the Sadowsky basses I made for Marcus have Sadowsky preamps.

My outboard preamps have always been made for me by Fishman. That is why the design of my first one looks similar to the Martin and some early Fishman designs. But it is only the case design that has any similarity.....the innards are all Sadowsky.

Although I do use Nordstrand to make some pickups of mine, he has never made a preamp for us.

Roger

[Rickett Customs]

Originally Posted by Sadowsky

We have been using the same preamp circuit since 1990. The circuit was designed by myself and Alex Aguilar. Prior to this, I used the Bartolini TCT, which is what I put in Marcus Miller's Fender. All of the Sadowsky basses I made for Marcus have Sadowsky preamps.

My outboard preamps have always been made for me by Fishman. That is why the design of my first one looks similar to the Martin and some early Fishman designs. But it is only the case design that has any similarity.....the innards are all Sadowsky.

Although I do use Nordstrand to make some pickups of mine, he has never made a preamp for us.

Roger

Thanks for clearing that up (and clarifying), Roger.

[jeremyr]

Originally Posted by Tigger Bangdang

Love my Sadowsky 2 band with VTC in my Callowhill. It rocks.

THIS! The sadowsky is very flexible and with the VTC it gives you ALL kinds of crazy tonal options despite not having a mid control (which IMHO is ALMOST always useless on an onboard preamp