Marcus Miller Jazz Bass pickup replacement

kirkm24 · #1 12-19-2008, 04:54 AM

I recently modded my Marcus Miller Jazz bass with a John East preamp. The bass sounds great in active mode but is really weak in passive mode... it doesn't sound like other passive jazz basses at all and with the new preamp it does have a tone knob.

I was wondering if a pickup replacement would give me a stronger passive mode and if so, which pickup would you recommend? I have a Lindy Fralin in my P bass that I absolutely love. I guess I was hoping to get a vintage J sound in passive mode and then a more modern sizzly sound with the preamp turned on. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

According to MM himself he has the original stock pickups from the 70's in his bass still so the idea I have seems like it could be done. I just wonder if the MM bass stock pickups are kind of crumby.

GlennW · #2 12-19-2008, 05:31 AM

I played with a few of those and prefered the ones that read about 8K. Some are closer to 7+K and sound thinner/weaker. I don't know why there's so much variation.

I tried a bunch of JB pickups and am sticking with SD ANT II's.

kirkm24 · #3 12-19-2008, 10:13 AM

I checked the Lindy Fralin website and the pickups are 8 and 8.5K so it shouldn't be as weak sounding. I guess the MM bass is all about the on board preamp.

allexcosta · #4 12-19-2008, 10:26 AM

Ant II's, Fralins, Nordies 70's. All great.

narud · #5 12-19-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirkm24

I recently modded my Marcus Miller Jazz bass with a John East preamp. The bass sounds great in active mode but is really weak in passive mode... it doesn't sound like other passive jazz basses at all and with the new preamp it does have a tone knob.

I was wondering if a pickup replacement would give me a stronger passive mode and if so, which pickup would you recommend? I have a Lindy Fralin in my P bass that I absolutely love. I guess I was hoping to get a vintage J sound in passive mode and then a more modern sizzly sound with the preamp turned on. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

According to MM himself he has the original stock pickups from the 70's in his bass still so the idea I have seems like it could be done. I just wonder if the MM bass stock pickups are kind of crumby.

the passive mode on that pre is a fail safe iirc. the passive setting isnt going to sound like a true passive bass regardless of pickups. this was my experience using the jretro and smash talks about the same thing in the giant j bass pickup review thread (it was either that thread or the review of his 74 jazz)

kirkm24 · #6 12-19-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narud

the passive mode on that pre is a fail safe iirc. the passive setting isnt going to sound like a true passive bass regardless of pickups. this was my experience using the jretro and smash talks about the same thing in the giant j bass pickup review thread (it was either that thread or the review of his 74 jazz)

Even if it doesn't sound like a true passive bass, would there be an overall improvement in tone or does the preamp just cancel out any perceived benefits of better pickups?

As the first responder said, the pickups are about 7K where most aftermarkets are 8K so it would seem there would be a stronger passive signal before the preamp. Given this, wouldn't the passive tone be stronger if the preamp is bypassed or does the retro circuits squash it even in passive?

narud · #7 12-19-2008, 03:29 PM

hotter pickups are going to sound different. you may or may not like that. its not that its just going to have a stronger signal, the tone is affected by the amount of wire. id try this to see if you like the sound of the pickups in there. wire them up straight to the output jack. ive done this with my 75 ri that has a bart in it to hear what color the pre was adding when set flat. a couple minutes with a soldering iron to go back and forth and thats it.

kirkm24 · #8 12-19-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narud

hotter pickups are going to sound different. you may or may not like that. its not that its just going to have a stronger signal, the tone is affected by the amount of wire. id try this to see if you like the sound of the pickups in there. wire them up straight to the output jack. ive done this with my 75 ri that has a bart in it to hear what color the pre was adding when set flat. a couple minutes with a soldering iron to go back and forth and thats it.

Out of curiosity, how did you like the sound of your pickups when you did this?

I like the retro pre but I wonder if the sound could be improved by replacing the stock pickups and if I could get a stronger signal in passive mode with different/better pickups. I've always heard that the stock electronics in Japanese Fenders are bad so it just had me wondering.

narud · #9 12-19-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirkm24

Out of curiosity, how did you like the sound of your pickups when you did this?

I like the retro pre but I wonder if the sound could be improved by replacing the stock pickups and if I could get a stronger signal in passive mode with different/better pickups. I've always heard that the stock electronics in Japanese Fenders are bad so it just had me wondering.

the bart and retro suck out some high mids and add some sheen to the sound. depending on the wood, it can make it sound over the top high tech or just right. the hotter the pickup the darker its going to get and the more youll need the treble boost. ive got some clips posted somewhere here of my old hotwire j with a retro and nordstrand. the clip had the bass boosted halfway and the treble damn near dimed. the darker sounding nords combined with the mellow swamp ash (that bass had a way light body) allowed that pre to be boosted like that. when i had a retro in my reissue, you couldnt boost the treble unless you wanted your face sliced off.

after typing that i realized i didnt answer your question

anyway i wanted an active sound and i went through a retarded amount of pickups before i settled on something. ill just say that i found something i liked with the antiquity 2's

kirkm24 · #10 12-20-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narud

after typing that i realized i didnt answer your question

anyway i wanted an active sound and i went through a retarded amount of pickups before i settled on something. ill just say that i found something i liked with the antiquity 2's

Were you using the retro preamp with those Antiquity pickups?

kirkm24 · #11 12-21-2008, 10:43 AM

Well I did a lot of research and decided to give the Antiquity II's a try. I've always been intrigued by these pickups so I am excited to try them out. I guess with my Jazz bass, I want a tone slightly darker than the stock MM pickups but still with balance and clarity. These sounded like they might fit the bill pretty well.

I think any of the hi-end hand wound pickups are going to sound nicer than the Japanese machine wound pickups that are stock in the Marcus Miller basses. People seem to really hail these as "the" pickup for Jazz Basses.

kirkm24 · #12 12-27-2008, 08:07 PM

Man what an idiot!

I got Antiquities for my Marcus Miller and wired them the same way facing down white/black, white black.

When i plugged them in, they sounded real nasally and honky. I was thinking that these pickups were a real piece of junk and I took them out and put my stocks back in (wired the same way) and they the bass still sounded nasally and honky. I looked at the instructions that came with the pickup and realized that the whites get flipped on the neck and bridge pickups and are not the same. Needless to say, the only pickup working was the bridge pickup, hence the nasally sound.

So now, tomorrow afternoon, I am going to give the Antiquities another try this time properly wired and give them another shake. I've been wiring basses for years and can't believe I committed this "rookie" error. A more fair review on the Antiquities is forthcoming tomorrow.

kirkm24 · #13 12-28-2008, 12:39 PM

I properly wired the pickups today and was really impressed.

First of all, in passive mode, the bass has almost the same level of output as it does with the preamp engaged meaning the stock pickups must have had pretty weak output in comparison. The pickups also are more crisp sounding without sounding harsh. The Antiquities also seem to have a fatter bottom end (or low mid punch). The pickups are both brighter and fatter sounding based on comparisons with the stock pickups. I'm pretty satisfied with this bass after having made this upgrade. If not for tone, the string to string balance is definitely better and the overall output is a little hotter. A worthwhile upgrade for this bass in my opinion.

narud · #14 12-28-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirkm24

I properly wired the pickups today and was really impressed.

First of all, in passive mode, the bass has almost the same level of output as it does with the preamp engaged meaning the stock pickups must have had pretty weak output in comparison. The pickups also are more crisp sounding without sounding harsh. The Antiquities also seem to have a fatter bottom end (or low mid punch). The pickups are both brighter and fatter sounding based on comparisons with the stock pickups. I'm pretty satisfied with this bass after having made this upgrade. If not for tone, the string to string balance is definitely better and the overall output is a little hotter. A worthwhile upgrade for this bass in my opinion.

the air and crispness in the ant 2's is something i never hear mentioned but imo is pretty important considering actual vintage pickups have that air up there and many current vintage replacement focus so much on the growl that they lose that sheen

kirkm24 · #15 12-28-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narud

the air and crispness in the ant 2's is something i never hear mentioned but imo is pretty important considering actual vintage pickups have that air up there and many current vintage replacement focus so much on the growl that they lose that sheen

I agree. The "stereotype" of vintage pickups is that they sound muddy and/or dirty/overdriven but these pickups have midrange growl but also a bright crispness up top that IMO is actually missing from some modern day pickups. I think my these pickups paired with my Retro preamp have plenty of high end sizzle, low mid punch and growl to satisfy a wide variety of musical styles.

Even the low notes have a crisp edge to them that I really like a lot. +1 for SD Antiquity II Jazz Bass Pickups!

Add a smidge of reverb to this bass and man it sounds like a million bucks!

hands5 · #16 12-29-2008, 12:18 PM

hey man get you a pair of Jason Lollars, a good set of "fresh CTS 250k pots and a good setup and ditch the preamp (s) and when I say preamp I mean all of them John East,J Retro Aguilar,however I will exclude the early 90's outboard preamp in this discussion,unless it's a must have.

chiplexic · #17 12-29-2008, 06:57 PM

A lot of guys say the Antiquity II's have "huge" bottom. As in, maybe too much. It doesn't sound like you find this to be the case?? I've got an brand new set of Antiquity II's I bought a while back just waiting to be installed in the right jazz when I find it.
These Lollar Jazz pickups sound Great in these sound clips at this link. I've never been much of a bridge pickup solo guy. But it sounds really nice in this clip.

http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/mer...tegory_Code=PP

narud · #18 12-29-2008, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiplexic

A lot of guys say the Antiquity II's have "huge" bottom. As in, maybe too much. It doesn't sound like you find this to be the case??

http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/mer...tegory_Code=PP

i definitely didnt find that to be the case.

GlennW · #19 12-30-2008, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiplexic

A lot of guys say the Antiquity II's have "huge" bottom.

Those guys could be comparing the Ant IIs to very weak and trebly pickups. I've yet to see any negative comments on the Ant IIs.

kirkm24 · #20 12-30-2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiplexic

A lot of guys say the Antiquity II's have "huge" bottom. As in, maybe too much. It doesn't sound like you find this to be the case?? I've got an brand new set of Antiquity II's I bought a while back just waiting to be installed in the right jazz when I find it.
These Lollar Jazz pickups sound Great in these sound clips at this link. I've never been much of a bridge pickup solo guy. But it sounds really nice in this clip.

http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/mer...tegory_Code=PP

I think they are fatter than the stock pickups that were in my Marcus Miller but they are not what I would call super bassy or bottom heavy like a pair of say EMG's which are majorly scooped. They are pretty bright pickups but still retain their "fatness" at the same time. That would be the best way to explain them I guess. I think they really have it all there, lows, mids and highs and that is why I think they've become so popular.

These pickups paired with the John East preamp have really opened up the Marcus Miller bass. I can get the Marcus sound or I can dial in some mids and get a good punchy fingerstyle sound. This is IMO, the best bass I have ever owned and I have owned some really nice basses in the past.