Me do jazz standards? That's unpossible!

[scottfeldstein]

Ok, so I agonized over whether to put this in "band management" or "effects" or "technique" or what. And you guys win! Hope it's a welcome topic.

Just getting back into music. Was a rock n' roller back in the day, but always had a weakness for funk, electronic, world and other diverse kinds of music. in my efforts to find people to play with and a gig to get out on, I'm jamming with two bands in rehearsal (who are both shy some members) and I'm still actively auditioning with whatever looks good in the local online classifieds.

Enough background. So. Acquaintance of mine who plays piano and sings just asked if I'd be interested in doing some jazz standards with her and another dude. I said "I don't know if I'm the right guy, but I'd love to find out."

She asked me if I had a "real book." I quick Googled it and said "no book. but I can learn anything by ear." She said they were doing things like:

Dream a Little Dream
When You Wish Upon a Star
In a Sentimental Mood

So. How do I get that upright bass sound on my electric Ibanez SR300? I mean... I can't. I know that. It is what it is. (Or IS IT??) But if you had the following rig:

Ibanez SR300
Gallien-Krueger MB500 amp head
GK 410 cab, GK 212 cab
pedals: compressor, sansamp bass driver and an envelope filter

How might you use them (or NOT use them) to fit in to an ensemble like this one?

Right off the bat I'm thinking no need for a big 410, so the 212 it is.

Then I'm thinking flat strings? Possibly.

What about foam mutes under the strings by the bridge?

Any EQ tips? Techniques? Magic spells?

[wshines1892]

Boost low mids, very light compression if any. Flatwounds are a great idea, but foam may not be necessary. I've been playing jazz with a normal electric with no problems, although my 4 year old set of flatwounds take care of not having too much sustain. You may try plucking with a soft side of your thumb to get less of an attack and a warmer tone.

[scottfeldstein]

Good tips! And got any more advice on which pickup I might use or tonal controls on the guitar? My bass has an active bass/treb cut/boost and also a sweepable midrange knob.

[afzoomie67]

Use the front pickup for a deeper sound. It works on my Hofner CT. But like the person above me said, boost low mids. For an upright sound, I would palm mute, but that's me.

[xxjazzbassist]

you buy an upright, a bass guitar never truely cops an upright sound

[Gaius46]

JMHO but you're probably better off getting the Real Book or getting your piano player to give you the charts.

And agreed. An electric bass will never sound like an upright.

[scottfeldstein]

A) I don't read music

B) I'd have to make a great success of this jazz thing to buy an instrument just for it

[smeet]

You can't sound like an upright on an electric, especially a fretted Ibanez. But it doesn't matter. All kinds of tones can work in jazz. But...

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

She asked me if I had a "real book." I quick Googled it and said "no book. but I can learn anything by ear." She said they were doing things like:

Dream a Little Dream
When You Wish Upon a Star
In a Sentimental Mood

Get a real book. I'm sure you have a good ear, but jazz is a whole new world of chords and substitutions. Also in jazz, you won't always have somebody playing the full chord for you to follow. The band will often be following you to hear the changes. And in a ballad, you may be the only one playing, so it's hard to hear changes until you are quite familiar with the genre.

You don't have to read music, but you have to be able to follow a chart, and know how to outline a ii/V/I etc.

They are easy and cheap to get these days: Amazon.com: The Real Book -Bass Clef; Sixth Edition (9780634060762): Hal Leonard Corp.: Books

My other tip - start listening to jazz. The role of a bassist is different in jazz than in rock or blues. The drummer is not the time-keeper, you are. Actually the whole band is, but you are often the the only consistent steady pulse.

[Duckwater]

This should help, flats and soloing your neck pickup will help as well

Palm Mute Lesson - YouTube

[Marty Forrer]

Your tone is best accomplished by palm-muting... that is have the side of your right hand resting on the bridge across the strings, and plucking with your thumb.
You dont need a real book, you should be able to find chord charts for almost any standard with the ever handy Google. A lot of standards in The Essential Real Book are incorrect anyway, although it's still a useful resource.

[Slowgypsy]

I've used foam with great tonal success and recommend it. Flats are a no brainer way to go, but do consider tapewounds. Fingerstyle only, no pick... and closer to the neck than bridge. Just my $.02

[scottfeldstein]

This is all more daunting than I thought. Music to me has always been hear it, play it. This all sounds like I'd have better luck playing pick up sticks with my butt cheeks.

I'm comfortable being the timekeeper and playing more or less by myself. But if it's a lot of improvisation where I'm required to essentially sight-read my music off a piece of paper... Perhaps I should bow out before it becomes a disaster.

[meursault42]

+1 on much of what has been said here.

The biggest issue I have with electric bass in (traditional) jazz settings is that the notes just don't have enough attack to propel the band rhythmically. It always sounds too 'slidey' to me, like somebody added too much lube to the time. Perhaps this is why somebody like Steve Swallow actually plays with a pick (a metal one if I'm not mistaken), to get a slightly more aggressive attack. I doubt you'd get very good results trying this on an Ibanez, but hey, anything's worth a try.

[elgecko]

You won't have to sight read music.

You WILL have to able to read a chord chart.

I think only one of the songs you listed is in the Real Book...but you SHOULD get one

Run what you brung...plenty of people play jazz on a fretted electric. There's no law that says you have to "sound" like an upright.

Forget the effects, jazz is more about what you play, not how it sounds.

[smeet]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

This is all more daunting than I thought. Music to me has always been hear it, play it. This all sounds like I'd have better luck playing pick up sticks with my butt cheeks.

I'm comfortable being the timekeeper and playing more or less by myself. But if it's a lot of improvisation where I'm required to essentially sight-read my music off a piece of paper... Perhaps I should bow out before it becomes a disaster.

They will sometimes want you to solo over the changes, which is often just you and the drummer. THat can be scary.

But 95% of the time you are playing roots (on a ballad) or walking quarter-note lines to outline the harmony.

[FretlessMainly]

I think it's good that you're trying to get close to a double bass sound, but more important than tone is the right jazz feel. You gotta be able to swing it baby.

Of the three pieces you mentioned, only Sentimental Mood is in the first volume of the Real Book. Here are some changes:

| Dmin Dmin^7 | Dmin7 Dmin6| Gmin Gmin^7 | Gmin7 Gmin6A7|
| Dmin | D7 | Gmin7 Gb7 | FMaj7 | (note: Dmin^7 means DminorMajor7, D F A C# - the ^ will be a triangle in most notation)

If you can construct a bass line from this, then you don't need to know how to read, just how to take chords and turn them into lines. But, a few points on the eight bars I just wrote out:

1. You'll need to know whether the arrangement you're doing requires the bass to play the line | D C# | C B | G F# | F EA | D | as dictated by the chords or if the piano will handle that and as a bassist you handle other harmonic aspects.

2. Many times in jazz you'll see a chord written as a minor6th chord. You'll need to know when it should really be played as a minor 6th chord, as in the Dmin6 in bar two, or as an inverted minor7(b5) chord, as in the Gmin6 in bar four. The Dimn6 is indeed a Dminor chord with the 6th an important part of the composition. The Gmin6 in bar four continues the pattern set forth in the first two bars, but it is also an inversion of an Emin7(b5) chord - you'll very commonly see Emin7(b5) A7 to Dmin - it's a ii v of i (lower case meaning minor). The Gmin6 is just an old Broadway score style of writing the progression.

Not trying to blow your mind here, but we're only four bars into the first song. Jazz takes some woodshedding. But if your ears are good, you might just have the ability to slide into it.

[Ed Fuqua]

When You Wish Upon A Star
In A Sentimental Mood

Does this sound like stuff you can hear your way through at this point? Cause that's what all of us are trying to get to, where you just hear what's going on, both internally and externally. Walking bass in jazz is a lot different from what they call "walking" in shuffle and blues, it's a stylistic approach that you should at least have heard and have some idea of what it's about.

[kevteop]

Originally Posted by elgecko

Run what you brung...plenty of people play jazz on a fretted electric. There's no law that says you have to "sound" like an upright.

Forget the effects, jazz is more about what you play, not how it sounds.

+1. Feel will be the hardest thing to cop if you don't really listen to jazz and don't have any experience in following charts or improvising walking lines. But if you can manage that, it won't matter what gear you're using.

Of course you could just buy a double bass anyway, they're useful for a lot more than jazz and they're great fun to knock a tune out of.

[Ronbassman]

You can get an interesting tone by plucking the strings in the 12th to 17th fret area.

[scottfeldstein]

Sure, I listen to some jazz. Norah, Basia, Bjork, Django...some Brazillian with Smokey & Miho...

Smokey & Miho - Summer Rain - YouTube

But actually play any of it? No. And there's lots of kinds of jazz. My listening approaches "dabble." My playing approaches zero.