Nordstand NJ4SE + Audere JZ3 installation agony!

[Simon Langley]

*Having a problem installing a set of Nordstrand NJ4SE pickups with my JZ3 preamp.

*There is a metal shielding plate at the bottom of the control cavity on my bass that the bridge ground and gray/white output jack ground wire are attached to.

*I attached the white/hot and black/common pickup wires to the appropriate spots on the green connector on the preamp and the gray ground wires from the pickups to the same metal plate that the bridge and output jack grounds are attached to.

*When an amp cable is plugged in the led flashes rapidly for several seconds and then goes out and there is no sound.

*If I remove the gray pickup grounds the preamp powers up properly and sounds fine but there is a slight pop and static when I brush against the pole pieces while playing.

***Any thoughts on how I can fix this?***

[bassybill]

I'd contact Audere or Carey Nordstrand (or both) - they should be able to put you straight on this.

[Davo-London]

Been there got the T-shirt.

I've got a feeling the ground and common need to be coupled into the common in the green connector housing. Leave the hot where they are.

I'm going from mem and I'm 400 miles from my bass right now.

Davo

[4StringTheorist]

Originally Posted by Davo-London

I've got a feeling the ground and common need to be coupled into the common in the green connector housing. Leave the hot where they are.

No no no no.

No.

Originally Posted by Audere JZ Installation Instructions

Do NOT connect the Common wire of the Pickups to the Cavity Ground. Doing so would increase the power pull and
cause distortion.

Audere JZ series preamp Installation Instructions

Simon:

It sounds fine with the grey Nordstrand wires unconnected to anything.

If you connect the grey Nord wires to the ground plate (and thus to the grey/white Audere wire) there's no sound.

Definitely email David Meadows at Audere. He'll know what the rapid LED flashing is diagnostic of and he'll be able to get you straightened out.

I'm personally wondering if there's a short between the polepieces and the coil in one/both of your NJ4SEs. Have you tried wiring up the grey pickup wires one at a time to see if the culprit is only one of the pickups? Doing that test might help David at Audere and Carey at Nordstand help you.

Good luck!
-T

[Simon Langley]

"LED fast flashes with good batteries?
1) The pickup common is connected to ground pulling the battery voltage down.
2) The battery contact is very marginal.
3) The input ring to jack ground connection is very marginal."

*Ruled out option 2 and 3 so I suspect my issue is with 1.

*This morning I am able to run the bass through a louder amp and have learned something new about the problem. Right now neither of the ground wires is attached. Without touching any other metal component if I touch the neck pickup poles it is quiet. If I touch the bridge pickup poles it hums and pops. If I touch the bridge, strings or control plate at the same time as either pickups poles it is quiet.

"The direction the coils are wound will effect the noise you hear when you touch the pole pieces with your fingers. You may find one pickup is noisy but not the other pickup or only one coil of a hum bucking pickup might be noisy. If your pickups do not have a bobbin around the pole pieces the problems will be larger."

*Here is some other information that may or may not be helpful

-Pickups were purchased 2nd hand from a TB member but were sealed in their original packaging and never installed before me.
-The neck pickup ground wire is gray while the bridge pickup ground wire is black.
-Both covers that came with the bass are black but the bridge pickups cover is flat black with rounded edges on the top. The neck pickup cover is glossy with sharp edges.
-I do have foam under the pickups for support but it does not run the entire length of the pickup.

*Don't know if any of this will help but you never know what seemingly meaningless bit of information while be the key. I am very anxious to resolve this issue because even with it this combination of components is awesome. Makes this bass scream!

[Simon Langley]

Originally Posted by 4StringTheorist

I'm personally wondering if there's a short between the polepieces and the coil in one/both of your NJ4SEs. Have you tried wiring up the grey pickup wires one at a time to see if the culprit is only one of the pickups? Doing that test might help David at Audere and Carey at Nordstand help you.

Good luck!
-T

*I did try attaching just the bridge pickup ground by itself but it reverted back to the flashing led no sound symptom. Di not try the bridge pickup ground by itself.

*Have already emailed both parties so hopefully they can help. I'm just anxious right now cause I am already in love with the sound of this combo, even with this problem. I had Fender Vintage Noiseless installed before and it sounded good but, no where near this good.

[4StringTheorist]

Originally Posted by Simon Langley

-The neck pickup ground wire is gray while the bridge pickup ground wire is black.

You're sure about this? Check at the back of each pickup. You should see two wires that head into the coil area, and one wire tack soldered to a little piece of copper tape that runs up the back of the pickup touching the backs of all of the pole pieces.

The copper tape/polepiece wire should be the grey one. But ultimately, whatever the wire color, that's the one that connects to the ground plate in the bass and thus the grey/white wire from the jack on your Audere.

The two wires that emanate from the coil should be black and white. These will wire into the screw terminals on the Audere circuit board.

Are the wire colors on the two pickups different? The copper foil grounding wire on the bridge unit is not a grey wire? Issues like that could have led to a botched install!

Originally Posted by Simon Langley

*Don't know if any of this will help but you never know what seemingly meaningless bit of information while be the key. I am very anxious to resolve this issue because even with it this combination of components is awesome. Makes this bass scream!

Absolutely! I've got a set of NJ4SVs through an Audere and it's just a wonderful thing to pick up that bass and pluck a note!

[Simon Langley]

The neck pickup wires are black, white and gray. The gray wire is a smaller gauge than the other two. The bridge pickup is white, black and black. The white wire and one of the black wires on the bridge pickup are the same gauge and the other black wire is the same smaller gauge as the gray wire on the neck pickup. That is why I used that particular black wire on the bridge pickup as the ground.

[maurilio]

Your bridge pup is an old one. The newer have the grey wire.

get a tester and mesure the grey (and resp black) wire against the white and the black from the coil. if you have conductivity, something's wrong.


M

[4StringTheorist]

Go with what they connect to on the other side. The wire that connects to the copper foil on the back is the ground. The other two, which come from the coil go to the Audere screw terminals.

maurilio is right, check these with a multimeter to be sure. The two coil wires should read as having a resistance of several thousand ohms. There shouldn't be a resistance reading between either coil wire and the ground wire.

[Simon Langley]

*Got an email from David at Audere (on a Saturday no less) and with his tips I was able to figure out what was going on. I have posted the email at the bottom of this post for anyone who is interested.

*David's tips turned my attention away from the control cavity and towards the pickups and ultimately the cause of all of my distress. What I found was a problem with the neck pickup.

*Norstrand sandwiches the strip of pole piece grounding foil between two pieces of bobbin material. They leave a small piece of foil exposed at one end for the ground wire to be soldered to. Normally this end is wrapped back around the back of the bobbin to keep it away from the hot and common wires that are soldered on at the same end. In this case the foil came loose and was contacting the black common wire terminal on the pickup (see first picture). Moved the foil end away from the common wire terminal and all is well (see second picture).




*Special thanks to David at Audere for his quick response and help in finding the problem and thanks to all those here who responded trying to help me out.

Hi

Not sure how old your pickups are?

FYI - this page started everyone grounding the pole pieces - check the 1st photo, note the pole piece ground strip does not touch the pickup commons
http://www.audereaudio.com/FAQ_PUMag_Gnd.htm

Nordstrand for a while was connecting the pickup common to the pole piece ground foil strip.
This connection was made on the bottom of the pickups with a small wire running from the pickup common connection (black wire) to the foil on the bottom of the pole pieces.
They fixed this by removing this interconnect and then adding the 3rd wire - grey in their case.

Your pickups seem to have this grey wire so there are 4 possible situations - most to least probable.
1) The grey is connected to the black in the control cavity
The pickups ship this way (wires twisted together) and you want to undo this connection.
I had to list it but seems like you would have noticed... just check it out...
2) The pickup's common is touching the cavity shielding which is connected to ground
If this is the problem then put some insulator under the pickup (foam - tape - rubber - etc)
3) Your pickup has the wire interconnecting the new grey wire and the old black wire
A few customers Nordstrand pickups have been wired this way - just cut this short interconnection wire and connect the grey to ground
If the foil strip on the bottom of the pickup was too long this can also create the problem but you can just trim it back.
4) The pickup's wire insulation has broken down
In technical terms the insulation has cold flowed or had a flaw in it.
I have been told by a few customers that Nordstrand in the past has rewound these pickups for the original customer when this happened but I do not know what is his policy on this issue.

If you have a meter or access to one or a friend with one...
http://www.audereaudio.com/FAQ_Metering.htm

Thanks
David