Nordstrand MM4.2 - better than EBMM standard?

[Fender32]

According to the Nordstrand website, this pickup is "an accurate reproduction of the early pre-Ernie Ball Musicman pickup" ....

Well, they're obviously not talking about a physically accurate reproduction (see below).

Nordstrand MM4.2


1977 (early) pre-EB StingRay


That makes me a little sceptical about the claims that "it sounds just like the early Musicman basses that are so widely coveted".

So, my question is: "what experiences have you all had with "upgrading" from a standard (current) EBMM StingRay pickup to the MM4.2"?

Are they all that they are hyped to be, or is the difference that it makes on a standard StingRay pretty minimal?

I'm trying to make my 2004 (3 band EQ) 'Ray sound more like my 1977 'Ray - will an MM4.2 help?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[PocketGroove82]

i really doubt it

[PilbaraBass]

while the Nordstrand pickup MM4.2 is constructed a bit differently than an early MM pickup...

I'm confidant that Cary Nordstrand spent a lot of time and effort into getting the MM4.2 to sound as close to the early MM as he possibly could.

From what I've seen from his products, his posts on TB, and those who deal with him...He's that type of person...an innovator.


Oh and yeah...Cary's pickups are potted in wax (check the pic)...the early MM's aren't...

Fred Rogers says, "Can you say "microphonic"?...I knew you could..."

But if you REALLY want your 2004 'ray to sound like '77 ray...you MUST first check out John East's preamp...designed and voiced SPECIFICALLY for this purpose...it doesn't appear to be a standard product on his web-site but you should contact him at john.east@which.net

[Fender32]

That's very helpful info. Thanks PilbaraBass.

I have a Nordstrand NP4 on the way for my P Bass and I have a lot of faith in that, despite having never heard one. The thing is, that really is physically very similar to the original.

Anyway, I'll have a re-think on the 'Ray. Every time I change something on it, it seems to just go further away from what I want (see avatar). Perhaps it's time to admit to myself that I just plain "don't like" EBMM StingRays and go out and buy another pre-EB (world of difference between the two, IME).

I guess that I was just looking for a "miracle cure" with the Nordstrand (foolish boy ) ....

[Carey]

Just to clarify a few things...

Our MM replacement pickup has the shorter magnets that were used in the second version of the original pickup. The pickup in the photo above has the longer magnets. Our pickup won't sound the same as this version, because the magnet length has a strong effect on the sound and dynamics. Also, on our replica the important dimensions are accurrate when compared to the original that I had available to study. The magnet height, the coil height, the wire size, and dc resistance are as correct as I could get them, again, compared to the sample I had available.

I have had reports from many picky MM fans that our pickup does sound almost indistinguishable from the one it's intended to replicate.

Another note... We no longer add the grounding tape (as in the pic) to the bottom of the replica pickups, mainly because the originals don't have the tape.

HTH

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by Carey

Just to clarify a few things...

Our MM replacement pickup has the shorter magnets that were used in the second version of the original pickup. The pickup in the photo above has the longer magnets. Our pickup won't sound the same as this version, because the magnet length has a strong effect on the sound and dynamics. Also, on our replica the important dimensions are accurrate when compared to the original that I had available to study. The magnet height, the coil height, the wire size, and dc resistance are as correct as I could get them, again, compared to the sample I had available.

I have had reports from many picky MM fans that our pickup does sound almost indistinguishable from the one it's intended to replicate.

Another note... We no longer add the grounding tape (as in the pic) to the bottom of the replica pickups, mainly because the originals don't have the tape.

HTH

Thanks for your response there, Carey. Couldn't really ask for a better informed opinion than yours .

It's clear to me now that your MM4.2 model is not modelled on the type of pickup that I thought it was supposed to be.

I was somewhat mislead by the text on your website, hence my sceptiscism. It's always been my understanding that it was the genuinely "early" pickups which had the "magic tone" and that it was these 1976-77 basses, which were the ones "that are so widely coveted".

The model of StingRay to which you are referring is, technically, the "later" pre-EB model.

That said, I understand why you might not want to replicate the first version. For a start it would only fit into a StingRay with the appropriate grooves cut into the pickup cavity (not a popular modification to a later bass). Also, I believe that Leo Fender felt that there were some negative effects of having such powerful magnets, hence the revised design.

Whatever the history though, all I know is this; the 1977 StingRay in the second picture has exactly the tone that I have always looked for in a StingRay and I was hoping that I could bring my modern, EB version somewhat closer to this sound. Of course, the pickup alone won't achieve this, but I'd consider it a step in the right direction .

As a foot note (and just in case you feel that I have been overly critical of your product, even though I've never even heard it in use), I would like to add this...

I also have a 1975 Fender Precision, which is missing its' original pickup and have ordered an NP4 to replace it, based solely on the glowing reviews from fellow TB'ers. I'm looking forward to it arriving, so that I can assess it and then join the ranks of "Nordstrand converts". By all accounts, your products and philosophies are exactly the kind, which we bassists should be grateful to have around.

Cheers!

[Carey]

Originally Posted by Fender32

Thanks for your response there, Carey. Couldn't really ask for a better informed opinion than yours .

It's clear to me now that your MM4.2 model is not modelled on the type of pickup that I thought it was supposed to be.

I was somewhat mislead by the text on your website, hence my sceptiscism. It's always been my understanding that it was the genuinely "early" pickups which had the "magic tone" and that it was these 1976-77 basses, which were the ones "that are so widely coveted".

The model of StingRay to which you are referring is, technically, the "later" pre-EB model.

That said, I understand why you might not want to replicate the first version. For a start it would only fit into a StingRay with the appropriate grooves cut into the pickup cavity (not a popular modification to a later bass). Also, I believe that Leo Fender felt that there were some negative effects of having such powerful magnets, hence the revised design.

Whatever the history though, all I know is this; the 1977 StingRay in the second picture has exactly the tone that I have always looked for in a StingRay and I was hoping that I could bring my modern, EB version somewhat closer to this sound. Of course, the pickup alone won't achieve this, but I'd consider it a step in the right direction .

As a foot note (and just in case you feel that I have been overly critical of your product, even though I've never even heard it in use), I would like to add this...

I also have a 1975 Fender Precision, which is missing its' original pickup and have ordered an NP4 to replace it, based solely on the glowing reviews from fellow TB'ers. I'm looking forward to it arriving, so that I can assess it and then join the ranks of "Nordstrand converts". By all accounts, your products and philosophies are exactly the kind, which we bassists should be grateful to have around.

Cheers!

You are correct in that we didn't want to make the long pole version of the pickup for all the reasons you stated. IMO the biggest drawback to that design is the strong string pull. That can cause problems if a player is looking for a low action set up like lots of folks do these days.
Of course, making a replica of the long pole pickup could probably be done...

Oh, and thanks for giving our NP4 a shot. I realize it's a stretch to try something sight unseen and... heard unheard ??? and I'm continually amazed at how many people actually take the leap, but I really appreciate it.
Thanks! Please let us know what you think when you get it installed.

[bryanjnkns]

Really good info here on EBMM and current MM stuff http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/TOWN8019...ompage0019.htm

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by bryanjnkns

http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/TOWN8019...ompage0019.htm

Thanks for the link, Bryan .

I'm pretty familiar with that site, as it goes (learnt a lot from it). Also, some of the "bridge" photos are from one of my StingRays and you can see all three of them in "Picture Gallery 2".

Sorry, I'm just showing off now .

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Just an idea, but would it not be possible to maybe buy a used original type MM pickup? The just route a bit more in your modern rays cavity to put the pickup in?

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by Carey

...

Oh, and thanks for giving our NP4 a shot. I realize it's a stretch to try something sight unseen and... heard unheard ??? and I'm continually amazed at how many people actually take the leap, but I really appreciate it.
Thanks! Please let us know what you think when you get it installed.

Sure thing, Carey!

I don't know when it'll be here. I ordered it 10 days ago from Jay at Blueberryhillbass (nice guy ), but it has to be "shipped" to Germany.

Any plans for European distribution, btw, or have I missed something?

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Just an idea, but would it not be possible to maybe buy a used original type MM pickup? The just route a bit more in your modern rays cavity to put the pickup in?

It's an option, theoretically .

To be honest though, I've never seen one of these pickups for sale anywhere at any price! They were only featured on the first 3,000 or so basses and probably never sold as spare parts, since the design was so quickly changed to the "MM4.2 style" (as it shall henceforth be known ).

Anyway, my original question was, "how does the MM4.2 sound, compared to a current, EB model"? No opinions on that one, so far ...

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Fender32

It's an option, theoretically .

To be honest though, I've never seen one of these pickups for sale anywhere at any price! They were only featured on the first 3,000 or so basses and probably never sold as spare parts, since the design was so quickly changed to the "MM4.2 style" (as it shall henceforth be known ).

Anyway, my original question was, "how does the MM4.2 sound, compared to a current, EB model"? No opinions on that one, so far ...

Ok, just another idea, have you ever thought about getting a pickup maker to clone your original pickup? just an idea.

Seeing its the sound you specifically want, and its such a rareity, you never know, might be worth the extra expense?

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Ok, just another idea, have you ever thought about getting a pickup maker to clone your original pickup? just an idea.

Seeing its the sound you specifically want, and its such a rareity, you never know, might be worth the extra expense?

Thanks again for your advice, IGaM.

I think I'm going to either, try the Nordstrand (pending the arrival of my Nordstrand NP4 P Bass pickup and subsequent review ), or just sell the bass, the extra neck and extra pickup and use the money to buy somethinmg more suitable.

We'll see.....