Pickup Volume, or Neckthrough Issue?

sixway · #1 12-29-2009, 06:19 AM

Here's the issue... my custom bass has passive Aero Humbucker pickups ( about 9.5k each) in the neck and bridge spots, activated by a four-way switch, and wired like a Fender Jazz, with individual (two) volume pots (500k), and a tone pot. The bass is neck-through, with black Limba (Korina) wood wings, and quilted Bubinga wood top. The neck is 36" scale, made with Maple and Wenge, 5-string, with individual bridges. The body width is 1-1/2" thick. I've been switching over the past couple of years between TI Nickel Flats, and Lakland Lite Gauge nickel roundwounds, which are currently in the bass.

I replaced the original pickups, which were an active set of EMG's, with the Aero's years ago. It took me awhile to find the sweet-spots with passive pickups after having had several basses with active pickups, but I find it hard now to get the tone I like from actives, and enjoy the seemingly infinite adjustability passives give me. The bass has a thick, even bottom end, with good zing on the top when I want, although I'm not a slap player - used mostly for Rock and Blues. Now for my issue....

I've never had the same volume with my Aero's that other passive basses seem to have, especially when they plug into my amp, and I have to turn them down. Or, I have to turn up it seems quite a bit when I plug into other amps. At times to offset this, I've used various small battery powered pre-amps to compensate. I called Larry at Aero recently to ask him about this volume difference, and his answer was essentially this: that neck-through basses in his experience don't put out the same volume as a bolt-on bass, because the neck-through is stiffer and vibrates less. Larry and I are good friends, and he's willing to make a set of hotter pickups for me, but in talking with him, it didn't sound like that would solve my volume issue, and might actually make it more difficult to dial in the tones I'm used to getting.

I do have friends that play passive basses, but in thinking about it, they're mostly Fender 4-and-5 strings. My roommate has a Mike Lull 4-string with Aero's in it that has Fender-like volume, and is also a bolt-on. I can't think of any players I know here that have a passive neck-through bass to compare mine to. So that's why I bring this "issue" to the forum. Has anyone had this type of experience with passive pickups on a neck-through?

Rodent, I'm hoping you will weigh in on this, and tell me if this is a secret neck-through problem we all should be aware of in the future when ordering basses, or this is an anomaly in combination with my bass woods, neck thickness, type of bridges etc. I've tried to be as thorough with as many details as I think are relevant, but please ask more questions if you think I've missed something.

One last thing, I've tried different pre-amps and stomp boxes, and even bass EQ's that are installed in small boxes so I could try them out, and I must say, I don't really like the way the seem to limit my tone. I have considered other pickups and active systems, but would like your opinions before I start spending money on the "cure" before I've identified the "cause". Also, don't be bashful about saying what's on your mind.... like that's going to happen in this forum!

Thanks guys, Happy New Year!

, and I look forward to what you have to say....

slyjoe · #2 12-29-2009, 06:54 AM

Neck-through bass is the problem???? I don't think so. How would the miniscule vibration differences (if any) in a neck-through vs a bolt-on translate into a differing output voltage from the pickups?

Sounds like an electrical issue, not a bass construction issue to me. I would start with the cable (cheaper), then verify the wiring is correct. If something is incorrectly loading the pickups the output can be adversely affected. These pickups appear to have low output no matter which amp they are going in; the last resort is replace them after the other troubleshooting is done.

SGD Lutherie · #3 12-29-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixway

I called Larry at Aero recently to ask him about this volume difference, and his answer was essentially this: that neck-through basses in his experience don't put out the same volume as a bolt-on bass, because the neck-through is stiffer and vibrates less.

Wrong. You don't want the neck or body to vibrate, that steals energy from the strings!

Also just because it's a neck-through doesn't mean the neck is going to be stiffer than a bolt on. It's all about how you make the neck. I have made my basses as bolt ons, set neck, and through necks, and they all sound pretty much the same and have the same output.

Basses made with very hard woods like wenge can sound tighter when new, but not have lower output. Also the tone of these basses opens up after a while.

Jim Breece · #4 12-29-2009, 07:46 AM

Some folks feel that bolt ons are inherently "punchier" than neck throughs. Guitar Player had an article to that effect about a year ago. Maybe it ties into what Larry at Aero means. It doesn't match up with my experience playing, building or screwing around with (oops, I meant to say "modding") basses, but hey.

SGD Lutherie · #5 12-29-2009, 08:15 AM

But it's usually comparing two totally different basses. LIke what's punchier, a Rick or a P bass? Apples and Oranges.

Unless you make two identical basses, except one is a bolt on and one is a neck though, you can't really tell.

I don't really hear much of a difference.

sixway · #6 12-29-2009, 03:53 PM

I tend to agree with you guys, that it can't make that much of a difference in output. I think that the pickups need to be checked to see if the magnets have lost power etc. I should just buy a set of pickups, used or otherwise and drop them in for comparison. That's the fun of modding anyways, right?

Thanks for the comments so far....

M0ses · #7 12-29-2009, 05:09 PM

That sounds like a good idea, after checking your wiring. Don't get custom wound "hot" pickups, because they won't give you a large increase in output, but they will change your tone a lot, in ways I'm guessing you won't like, from what you said in the OP.

sixway · #8 12-30-2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M0ses

That sounds like a good idea, after checking your wiring. Don't get custom wound "hot" pickups, because they won't give you a large increase in output, but they will change your tone a lot, in ways I'm guessing you won't like, from what you said in the OP.

I had my first lesson with a great bass player, and he thinks my bass has great tone. I like the tone I have too, but it just doesn't seem to be loud enough. My amp has plenty of power, and at times I've used small preamps to up my levels. I don't mind that, but I've yet to find one that boosts volume without altering the tone.

My best friend bought me a Roland GT-10B for Christmas (yeah, I know, great friend!), and there are a number of great sounding patches, so that might be the way to go.

I'm going to do a complete strip-down of my bass soon to re-do the finish, fret job etc., so I'll take a close look at my wiring. I've been meaning to do a better job of running grounding wires to a common point, and make sure the solder joints aren't cold, etc. The main thing is to start at the beginning and eliminate the obvious.