Pickups for Fender Custom Shop Jazz growl?

[SactoBass]

I am a proud owner of a brand new (2009 new/old stock) Fender Custom Shop Classic Jazz IV with a beautiful Bing Cherry translucent ash body and a maple neck with a maple fretboard. Excellent workmanship and hardware on this bass. I love everything about it, except for one thing......the pickups and electronics aren't quite what I want as far as "tone" is concerned. Everything else is perfect with this bass, so it's a keeper for me. All I want to do is change out the pickups and electronics. This bass comes new with the "noiseless" jazz pickups (dual coil humbucker type).

I was in Guitar Center a couple of weeks ago just goofing around, and I played a Fender Marcus Miller bass (4-string). The tone I got out of that thing was THE BOMB.......growly beefy snarly mids! It sounded awesome! I was playing through a solid state combo amp and it sounded like a raging power tube saturated blueline SVT! But it wasn't the amp.....it was the Marcus Miller bass. I plugged another bass into that amp just to be sure it wasn't the amp, and it was definitely the Marcus Miller bass with the "vintage single coil" pickups (and the preamp) that was producing that fantastic beefy snarl. I didn't buy the Marcus Miller bass because I don't care for the looks (personal taste), and I wanted a Custom Shop jazz.

So, what I would like to achieve is, that growly beefy snarly mids sound in my new Custom Shop jazz. I am definitely going with single coil pickups. (The 60hz hum is not an issue for me because I always run both pickups full on.) I seek your advice on which single coil jazz set of pickups I should get. I also want to mention that I plan to replace the existing stock preamp with a John East J-Retro Deluxe preamp (very nice, sweepable mids, etc).

I plan to use the same type of strings on my Custom Shop as what was on the Marcus Miller bass (Fender Super 7250M NPS's).

I am looking at these single coil jazz pickups as possible candidates:

• Fender Custom Shop 60's
• Lollars
• Nordstrand NJ4 60's wind (w/heavy formvar wire)
• Nordstrand NJ4 70's wind (w/enamel wire)

Based on all of the reading I have already done on TB (including Smash's lengthy thread and others), I have decided against Seymour Duncan and Lindy Fralin pickups.

One argument for the Fender Custom Shop 60's pickups is that the Marcus Miller bass has Fender vintage single coil pickups....probably very similar to the CS60's.

Which pickups do you recommend? And more importantly.....why?

Thanks!

[mcnach]

Based on my experience of the John East J-Retro... I'd say change the preamp first and then see what you think about the tone, before you start thinking about other pickups. Unless you feel your existing pickups are far from the mark, of course.

I'd normally suggest to start with a good source (pickups that sound closest to what you're after) and then the preamp... but the J-Retro allows you to beef up the sound a LOT, and with the sweepable mid control you can get so many different tones... You might be happy with a preamp change alone.

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by mcnach

Based on my experience of the John East J-Retro... I'd say change the preamp first and then see what you think about the tone, before you start thinking about other pickups. Unless you feel your existing pickups are far from the mark, of course.

I'd normally suggest to start with a good source (pickups that sound closest to what you're after) and then the preamp... but the J-Retro allows you to beef up the sound a LOT, and with the sweepable mid control you can get so many different tones... You might be happy with a preamp change alone.

Thanks mcnach. I actually had already given that option some thought. But I have made the decision that single coils are what I want. Cost is not an issue for me. And also, when I have the bass all torn apart, I want to make all the changes at once and not have to take it all apart again. So my plan is to change out the preamp and the pickups at the same time.

Do you have any comments on the pickup choices I listed?

[Doug Parent]

Nordies, because I like the growl factor.

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by Doug Parent

Nordies, because I like the growl factor.

Thanks Doug. Which set of Nords are you referring to? (I listed two different sets in my original post).

[One Drop]

Just get the Fender Original (Vintage) pickup; it's the same one as in the AV series, the MM, and the CS Time Machine basses. The CS PUP is different, slightly over-wound IIRC.

It gets overlooked because everyone wants to find the ultimate boutique PUP, etc., but nothing sounds better to my ears than these relatively inexpensive PUPs on a passive J or P.

The only problem is they might be quite noisy (like all SC pickups) when the two PUPs are set at different levels through that preamp. If you usually use both PUPs all the way up you're dandy.

What keeps you from the considering Antiquities or Fralins? Both are fantastic PUPs that bring the growl and the classic J tone.

[JamcoPasamerson]

Originally Posted by SactoBass

One argument for the Fender Custom Shop 60's pickups is that the Marcus Miller bass has Fender vintage single coil pickups....probably very similar to the CS60's.

Which pickups do you recommend? And more importantly.....why?

Thanks!

Not to over simplify here but wouldn't it make sense to go with the Fender vintage single coil pickups seeing as how those were the pickups that got the sound you loved so much?

[SactoBass]

Thanks OD. I hadn't thought of the regular Fender original vintage pickups. I will definitely look into those.

You pose a good question about the SD's and Fralins. I neglected to state in my original post why I have discounted those. The reason for discounting the SD's is two-fold: I tried a set of SD's in a Ric bass about ten years ago, and I was not impressed at all (granted, that is a different model of pickup). So that left a rather "meh" impression in my mind with the SD brand. Secondly, I have read many posts on TB about the SD Antiquities (especially the II's) having too much low end and not enough mid's. Regarding the Fralins, the reason is again two-fold: I had a US Lakland JO that had Fralins, and the tone was pretty good but nothing near the growl and beefy snarl that the Marcus Miller has. And secondly, I have read many TB posts stating that the Fralins are a bit harsh in the upper mids and the highs.

Originally Posted by One Drop

Just get the Fender Original (Vintage) pickup; it's the same one as in the AV series, the MM, and the CS Time Machine basses. The CS PUP is different, slightly over-wound IIRC.

It gets overlooked because everyone wants to find the ultimate boutique PUP, etc., but nothing sounds better to my ears than these relatively inexpensive PUPs on a passive J or P.

The only problem is they might be quite noisy (like all SC pickups) when the two PUPs are set at different levels through that preamp. If you usually use both PUPs all the way up you're dandy.

What keeps you from the considering Antiquities or Fralins? Both are fantastic PUPs that bring the growl and the classic J tone.

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by JamcoPasamerson

Not to over simplify here but wouldn't it make sense to go with the Fender vintage single coil pickups seeing as how those were the pickups that got the sound you loved so much?

Hey! Gotta love your TB name!! Good job on that!!

As One Drop suggested, you make a great point about the regular Fender vintage single coils. I will definitely look into those!

[Edward G.]

I have a custom Jazz with Rio Grande 'Muy Grandes'. They are among the very nicest Jazz single-coils I ever heard and felt. The low end of the neck pickup is exceptionally strong and well-defined, and the bridge pickup has a very neat snap to it. Together, you can connect the dots.

These pickups happened to be on the bass when I bought it, the first Rio Grandes I ever saw. I can't imagine ever changing them. This brand would be high on any list of mine if I were in the market for pickups.

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by Edward G.

I have a custom Jazz with Rio Grande 'Muy Grandes'. They are among the very nicest Jazz single-coils I ever heard and felt. The low end of the neck pickup is exceptionally strong and well-defined, and the bridge pickup has a very neat snap to it. Together, you can connect the dots.

These pickups happened to be on the bass when I bought it, the first Rio Grandes I ever saw. I can't imagine ever changing them. This brand would be high on any list of mine if I were in the market for pickups.

Hmmm......I am not familiar with those. Thanks for mentioning them. I will do some research on those.

[One Drop]

Originally Posted by SactoBass

Thanks OD. I hadn't thought of the regular Fender original vintage pickups. I will definitely look into those.

You pose a good question about the SD's and Fralins. I neglected to state in my original post why I have discounted those. The reason for discounting the SD's is two-fold: I tried a set of SD's in a Ric bass about ten years ago, and I was not impressed at all (granted, that is a different model of pickup). So that left a rather "meh" impression in my mind with the SD brand. Secondly, I have read many posts on TB about the SD Antiquities (especially the II's) having too much low end and not enough mid's. Regarding the Fralins, the reason is again two-fold: I had a US Lakland JO that had Fralins, and the tone was pretty good but nothing near the growl and beefy snarl that the Marcus Miller has. And secondly, I have read many TB posts stating that the Fralins are a bit harsh in the upper mids and the highs.

I can't really hear a big difference between the three myself, but I've never really heard them A/Bed on the same bass; too many other variables to make an opinion. But all three sound vintage correct and have a nice balance of mids, highs and lows, IMO, and all are growly.

My '73 J's neck PUP was rewound by Wizard in the UK, and it sounds the same as it did but better, if that makes any sense. Maybe the fact they are scatter-wound? Something else to obsess about...

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by One Drop

Maybe the fact they are scatter-wound?

Yeah, I have read that the scatterwound pickups are better. I know that the Lollars are scatterwound because it says so on their website. The Nordies are "simulated hand wound" (per their website) which I presume means scatterwound. I do not know if the Fender pickups are scatterwound.

[SactoBass]

Anyone else??

[woolysock]

Hmmmm... I have a 62ri Fender Jazz and replaced the AV pups w Lollars which I love. Hard to describe these things... smooth, clear, balanced, thick, and a bit dirty. But I wouldn't say "growly beefy snarly mids". Then again, depends on what strings you use. Look here at post 1 & 29 Fender 62 ri vs Sadowsky UV70 You'll find clips of my bass with the AV pups and with the Lollars. IMHO, not a huge huge difference. Whaddya think? There's also a clip of my Sadowsky UV70 w Nordstrand 70s wind pups. A little more growl there I think. Hope this helps.

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by woolysock

Hmmmm... I have a 62ri Fender Jazz and replaced the AV pups w Lollars which I love. Hard to describe these things... smooth, clear, balanced, thick, and a bit dirty. But I wouldn't say "growly beefy snarly mids". Then again, depends on what strings you use. Look here at post 1 & 29 Fender 62 ri vs Sadowsky UV70 You'll find clips of my bass with the AV pups and with the Lollars. IMHO, not a huge huge difference. Whaddya think? There's also a clip of my Sadowsky UV70 w Nordstrand 70s wind pups. A little more growl there I think. Hope this helps.

Thanks wooly. I had actually already listened to your clips before starting this thread. (Thanks for posting those, by the way.) Your description matches the clips. And based on what I heard from those three clips, the Nordstrand 70's wind pickups seemed to sound the growliest of the three. Very nice!

[thesilence]

I just put NJ4 60's wind on my MIM JBass and I think those or the CS60's will give you the tone you desire

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by thesilence

I just put NJ4 60's wind on my MIM JBass and I think those or the CS60's will give you the tone you desire

Thanks Silence. Can you describe the tone you get from your NJ4 60's wind? (particularly the mids). Are they growly and chewy? Or are they polite and smooth?

[woolysock]

I should point out that the AV pup clip and first Lollar clip were recorded with well worn DR nickel-wound Low Riders on the bass. I did a second Lollar clip w fresh DR nickel-wound Low Riders and it shows a bit more growl. The UV70 clip was recorded with broken-in DR stainless Steel High Beams which give more growl. What I mean to say is maybe strings have as much if not more to do with growl?

[Tasteebass]

I have Lindy Fralins J's in my Mike Lull M4V ash/maple, and in my Valenti fretless J. Amazing pickups! You can give him a call and he'll over/under wind to your exact specs. I have also noticed that tone with the marcus miller. mean. But the Fralins are full and deep and clear, with that tasty growl. Worth looking into!