pickups for RD homebuild

[andysleigh]

Hello

I am thinking of doing a homebuild of a Gibson rd series.

I was wondering what pickups are out there that could be ideal for the job.
idealy of a similar size to the gibson ones. and no visible poles

So far i'v seen the dimazio model one. which is a possability, but a little large.

does anybody know about-
seymour duncan ssb4's
seymour duncan blackouts
emg hb


cheers

Andy

[kesslari]

Can you define what you're trying to do more specifically?
IMO, one of the main points of the RD's was the crazy-ahead-of-its-time electronics.
If you've got a line on that, than the pickups will be important.
If you're going for "I like the shape" then the pickups will be less important, and you can decide if you like soapbars, jazz, p's, MM's, ... and then get into specific pups and mfgs.

What are your tonal goals? What do you want it to sound like?

[markkoelsch]

The RD, especially the artist version, was way ahead of the curve in terms of electronics. Are you trying to completely replicate it, or merely make a bass that looks like it?

[andysleigh]

sorry, i did think i should have put a bit mroe detail in
-

i like the shape, but want nice sound to follow.
but trying to recreate the whole moog electrics would be a bit ambitious. i'm rubbish with electrics, wood and metal are more my thing.

If there were any pickups, pots, electrics etc, that i could buy that would help give a range of tones etc, that would be ideal.

P and J style pickups ae a no go for me. i personally think the appearence of them is basic and common. I get fussy when it comes to aesthetics.

i'm probably just dreaming a bit to much...

[fu22ba55]

+1 that P or J pups would look "unimaginative" in the RD.

As you've discovered, the original RD pups were basically "guitar humbucker" sized... so that opens you up to alot of things if you're OK with using guitar instead of bass pups.

I haven't played through the Duncans or the EMG HBs, but I used to have the Dimarzio Model Ones in one of my RDs for a while. (They wouldn't fit in the pickguard, but they fit in the existing pickup cavities without any modification.)

SGD Lutherie also offers most of his bass pups in that size, and he has a couple cool things to choose from.

Rio Grande Pickups makes Pitbull Bass Humbuckers in that size in Black Plastic or Nickel as well.

---

I personally couldn't stand the Moog pre. I ripped mine out. It may have been ahead of it's time, but that was 33 years ago. It was really, really good at one thing: picking up radio stations. That's it. There are plenty of things on the market that are light years ahead of it now. You could get something from John East, or an Aguilar or Audere...

Personally, I'm a passive guy.

The NOS RD pups were popping up on eBay last year... someone was cleaning out the shelves in Kalamazoo, but for what it's worth, the RD pups are pretty crappy without the Moog pre.

---

Just FYI,

First Act still makes the Delgada, and Edwards/ESP still make the Dir en Grey Toshiya Signature bass which are both RD knockoffs.

[andysleigh]

fu22ba55- thanks for the reply!
thats some good stuff to know.

You can use g**tar pickups on a bass?? didnt think it would work!. You learn somthing new every day...
what are the differences of doing that?


How do you rate the dimarzio pickups?
youtube seems a bit thin on the ground for proper videos showing what they are like. and non existant for blackouts, pitbulls etc.

ta muchly
Andy

[fu22ba55]

Originally Posted by andysleigh

You can use g**tar pickups on a bass?? didnt think it would work!.

I don't know necessarily that you can... the RD pickups are the same SIZE as most guitar pups, and if you used guitar pups with rails instead of poles, you'd be OK for string coverage... but I have no idea if they are sonically different.

Duncan makes blackouts for both guitar and bass, so I thought you meant the guitar ones since they're the same size as the RDs.

There have been a few threads here on TB that pop up time to time about whether it's a good idea, so a search might be in order. I've never bothered to check...

David from SGD Lutherie might chime in on this thread, or you could send him a PM. He's very knowledgeable and has reverse-engineered a lot of pickups and preamps. He might be able to speak to the "guitar pups in a bass" question.

If you want something new school, that uses a preamp, etc... then I imagine there are areas where guit pups will fall short. I'd do a search for sure.

Originally Posted by andysleigh

How do you rate the dimarzio pickups?

They make the "Model One" and the "Will Power Neck", which looks exactly like the Model One, but has more mids.

I used a Will Power Neck (only) in my RD for about 10 years 'til I basically broke it in half. Total fuzz. Total Geezer Butler.




I switched back to the original RD pups since the DiMarzio was shot, and I wanted to try a splt coil sound, and the Will Power didn't really sound that good as a split coil.

The Model One / Will Power is a one trick pony. Mudbucker. Fuzz. Filth. It had to get REALLY close to the strings to be useful at all... It was fun, but I don't know that I'd go back to it.

If I were to go the mudbucker route, I'd use Curtis Novak's:



Curtis also makes a Hofner-style "staple" pickup that's a little smaller. That might be a good look as well.

---

If you're willing to get away from the RD look, I think that Lakland/Hanson Chi-Sonics (either the big HBs or the smaller SCs) would KILL in an RD, and I really REALLY think Hammond Darkstars would work best, but Fred Hammond has been AWOL for a while now. Nobody can get in touch with him (I hope he's OK!)

I think an RD with Darkstars would rule the earth. Chi-sonics would be cool too. (The pickups in the First Act Delgada kind of have the same look as the Chi-Sonics... so that gives you an idea.)

[kesslari]

Ooh yeah, RD with Darkstars...

[andysleigh]

brilliant!

the chi sonics and darkstars look pretty mean. cant really decide between them.


I like to play hard hitting rock etc, so after a good deep growl.
perhaps a bit like the gibby t-bird :/

theres to much to chose from!

[fu22ba55]

Originally Posted by andysleigh

the chi sonics and darkstars look pretty mean. cant really decide between them.

Depending upon your timeline, Chi-Sonics might win that debate since Fred Hammond (the sole manufacturer of the Darkstars) has been AWOL for a while now. Nobody can get in touch with him, and some people are waiting on pickups. (Hope all is well with him.)

You can get Chi's as HB or SCs. I've got one (in the P-bass position of another bass) and I went with one coil for the SC sound. The HB sound gets a little spongy to me... very Music Man. So if you got Chi HBs you'd have more tonal options if you did the coil tap switch.

Darkstars are SCs only, so they are a one-trick pony, but it's one heck of a trick.

Originally Posted by andysleigh

I like to play hard hitting rock etc, so after a good deep growl.
perhaps a bit like the gibby t-bird :/

The Chi's in SC mode (or SC Chi's) will give you that in spades. I've been down the T-bird route... I just sold some 60's bird pups last year, because while they sounded great, their output was way too low. Maybe the 70's ones had better output.



Nordstrand will make Big Singles in EMG35-shaped cases, and they are great sounding pup as well. Not as gnarly to my ears as the SC Chi's but still a kick-butt single-coil.

[andysleigh]

thanks mate
youve been a great help!

The chi's shall be at the top of my list for now, unless i find somthing els.

---
i forgot about the SGD's.
he seems to do one the size and shape i want, altho theres not much info on it at the moment, it seems to sounds fairly good.

the horizon broadens....

[fu22ba55]

Let me know if you need any measurements, etc...

I'm here to help. I know a bit about replacing pups in RDs.

[SGD Lutherie]

Every now and then this eBay store has RD parts:

http://shop.ebay.com/greatdealz1967/m.html

If you want to keep with the look, use some kind of soapbars.

I think the smaller Bart size soaps would look cool on an RD, but also a pickup in the EMG-35 size would do.

I've made bass pickups in guitar pickup sizes. Lately I have been doing them in chrome covers.

Here a regular and mini size:



Those are my neo humbuckers. I can also do the Sidewinders which sound like real single coils with no noise.

[fu22ba55]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

Every now and then this eBay store has RD parts:

http://shop.ebay.com/greatdealz1967/m.html

Yes ++

I've purchased three NOS RD neck blanks and two NOS RD pickguards from this seller. They are the ones with their fingers in the old kalamazoo inventory. I've seen them sell NOS RD pups before as well.

These are actual RD Artist necks. I have three of them and they match up to my RDs exactly.

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

Those are my neo humbuckers. I can also do the Sidewinders which sound like real single coils with no noise.

David, those look great.

I think I need to take a pair of those sidewinders off your hands once you get caught up and open your store back up. The pups in my RD sound awful.

The bottom one in that pic is RD sized? 2.78" x 1.56" or thereabouts?

[andysleigh]

Hi David
thanks for the info. They look very snazzy indeed.
I think the black Neo humbuckers would be ideal for the project!, right size and proportions by the looks of it.
what sort of price do you do them for?


fu22ba55-
thanks for the link to that seller!
a 90% finished neck for $40 (£25 to me) is a bargain, cheaper than buying material to make my own. i'l be buying one of them, heck maybe even two for a rainy day.

---
Also, if you know of any electrics i could put in, eg, bass, treble, bright, good pots, other helpful stuff.
i have no knowledge with guitar electronics. and have no diea what i would be looking for!

thanks allot!
Andy

[fu22ba55]

Originally Posted by andysleigh

fu22ba55-
thanks for the link to that seller!
a 90% finished neck for $40 (£25 to me) is a bargain, cheaper than buying material to make my own. i'l be buying one of them, heck maybe even two for a rainy day.

David gets the credit for that one. I just helped with the assist.

The necks have no fingerboard... so they might not exactly be 90% finished, but they definitely take care of some of the heavy lifting.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by fu22ba55

Yes ++

I've purchased three NOS RD neck blanks and two NOS RD pickguards from this seller. They are the ones with their fingers in the old kalamazoo inventory. I've seen them sell NOS RD pups before as well. I always wanted a Triumph bass.

These are actual RD Artist necks. I have three of them and they match up to my RDs exactly.

I have one of those necks as well. I think they are actually the long scale Les Paul bass necks, since they have a date from the 80s. But they are the same thing as the RD. I also got two Les Paul Triumph pickup covers and mounting rings, so I plan on building myself a Les Paul Triumph bass, and winding my own low impedance pickups. I got a Gibson inlay set from a 70s Les Paul Custom to install in that neck.

David, those look great.

I think I need to take a pair of those sidewinders off your hands once you get caught up and open your store back up. The pups in my RD sound awful.

The bottom one in that pic is RD sized? 2.78" x 1.56" or thereabouts?

The bottom one is a standard guitar humbucker size, of 2.75" x 1.52". They would work on a maximum string spacing of 2" for a humbucker, and the full 2.75" width for a sidewinder.

[andysleigh]

Originally Posted by fu22ba55

David gets the credit for that one. I just helped with the assist.

The necks have no fingerboard... so they might not exactly be 90% finished, but they definitely take care of some of the heavy lifting.

oh yes of course,silly moment. thanks dave!

fingerboard shouldnt be to hard...i hope..
just about to buy 1 or 2

[andysleigh]

I got the feeling the rd's were through necks. so the neck and centre of the body are once piece.
or am i wrong?

EDIT-
i also notice that-
rd neck is 1 5/8" at nut
ebay neck is 1 3/4" at nut

rd is 34.5" scale
ebay neck is 34" scale

tho it says it fits the ripper, which is also a 34.5" scale :/

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by andysleigh

fingerboard shouldnt be to hard...i hope..
jsut about to buy 2

You can get slotted, and radiused fingerboards from a number of places, such as:

Luthier's Mercantile: Fingerboards

The way I do it is; I start with a center line drawn on the neck black and the fingerboard. I then find the location of the fingerboard on the neck, and then drill some small holes through a couple of fret slots and use small brads as locator pins. You can put a little paste wax on the brads to stop them from sticking to the glue.

I use a clamping caul on top of the fingerboard. If the board is radiused I use a caul shaped like a U. Leave the fingerboard larger than the neck blank.

When the glue is dried I use a router with a top bearing pattern bit to trim the fingerboard to the neck taper.

Then I glue the fingerboard to the neck using epoxy. Some people use titebond, but I don't like using water based glue for fingerboards.

You should have experience using these techniques before you start on the neck. Maybe you can practice on some wood as a surrogate neck.

After the fingerboard is glued on and trimmed I install the frets.