Pots for an EB-0 style w/ Bisonic clone

[astack]

Been digging around this morning trying to figure out what volume and tone pots to buy. I feel like Mr. Burns in that Simpsons scene where he's at the grocery store staring at "Ketchup or Catsup."



I know, like ketchup, it's all very subjective, but there's a difference between bbq sauce and ketchup at least...

So the questions:

1) Value - OK easy enough. I think. I'll get a few 250k's and 500k's and see how it goes. Anybody try higher for more highs? Is that too much for a Bisonic-type? The pickup will be placed back more in the P position, so no neck heavy signal here.

2) Linear v. Audio: General consensus is linear volume and audio tone, unless you're heavy into fuzz/distortion then audio for both, yeah?

3) Shaft length - The body is going to be from scratch, so I can make anything fit, but for a pot going through wood, I can't imagine I could make it as thin as a pickguard, so long shafts? Did some Googlin' and looks like SG guitars at least use short (but LP's use long because of the carved top). And you can make long shafts short but not vise versa.

4) Brand - JUST KIDDING. I've read enough threads to know where that goes.

Sorry for the dumb questions. This seems like it'd be a sticky by now, but I think this forum somehow has the fewest on the board...

[ctmullins]

I'd go with 500k. No sense in having that yummy BiSonic tone if you're going to choke the highs with 250k pots...

[astack]

Originally Posted by ctmullins

I'd go with 500k. No sense in having that yummy BiSonic tone if you're going to choke the highs with 250k pots...

+1 makes sense to me. Thanks.

[hdracer]

What Bisonic clone are you using?
I have been looking into them for my SG

[astack]

Curtis Novak's. Just gave him all my money. I'm stoked.

[hdracer]

That is where I was looking.
I can't make up my mind between the Bisonic and the EB-AA

[ctmullins]

I'm very interested in hearing reviews of either/both of those Novaks.

[astack]

I wasn't sure either, but Curtis is the kind of builder to help with that decision. Similar to how Alex Claber with Barefaced sells cabs. I think that approach makes more sense than the "customer is always right" approach. Because sometimes I'm wrong.

So I told him about the build, my goals, etc and he confirmed the EB-BS direction.

[hdracer]

What is the time frame on his pick ups?
I hate doing business with people that want all the money up front and let you hang.

[astack]

His site says a couple days, but he quoted me about 3 weeks w/ post holiday backlog and NAMM this week. That sounds fair to me. I trust him on that time, but will report back how it goes.

Honestly, I'm a bit out on this project, so I don't mind the wait. As long as it's not 10 months like some cab and pedal builders...

If you want you could probably talk to him about paying only when it's ready as long as it's not a totally custom thing.

[hdracer]

That's cool. I think I'll give him a call.
I think the music industry is the only one that asks customers to pay in full up front on special work.
I only ask for materials cost up front to cover my outlay and to keep the customer from blowing me off. It also keeps me motivated to get the job done fast so I can get paid. I would be out of business real fast if I asked for everything up front.
We have all seen the threads about pick up, cab, effects makers that get paid in full up front.

[Cadfael]

Originally Posted by astack

1) Value - OK easy enough. I think. I'll get a few 250k's and 500k's and see how it goes. Anybody try higher for more highs?

Pot values influence the resonance.
The high frequencies are "only" influenced "indirectly ...

YES!!! There are more high frequencies!!! No question!!!
But at the same time the resonance peak - and so the whole sound changes.

Changing pot values doesn't only mean adding high frequencies, but also "stressing them".

Therefore lower values can be a good choice to stress the frequency you mostly prefer. The loss of high frequencies might not be so important that to "cut through the band sound". The high mids can be important to be heard as a bass.

Bass players somethimes think that very low frequencies are great. This might be true if you live next to a zoo and want an elephant lady to "be in season" and fall in love with you. Other want to impress dogs or bats ...

On a high impedance bass you normally can't go totally wring eith a 250k-500k pot. Gibson also often used 300k (and 100k - which I wouldn't recommend) pots.
SC = 250k, HBs = 250k - but that's no rule!!!

[sunbeast]

I've tried both 250K and 500K in my Jazz with 2 Darkstars, and I preferred the 500K though it made more precise blending a little more touchy. On a single pickup bass that wouldn't be an issue though. With a tone pot, I always use a higher value because you can get all the lower values just by turning it down. The function of a volume control doesn't work that way though unfortunately- though you could always put a "treble bleed" capacitor across the volume pot to maintain a brighter tone regardless of what pot you use.

[Cadfael]

No matter if volume or (normal passive) tone pot ...
They are always wired parallel to the PU or Hot+Ground. Therefore they influence the sound (even with a capacitor been pot and Ground (Hot).

I have a 500k Volume and two 250k Tone pots in my SSS Stratocaster (with 60s Strat PUs).

There is no rule ...
And as sunbeast correctly wrote: I PREFER ...
That's the right way! Your taste decides if 250k or 500k, lin or log (for Volume) are right.

[ctmullins]

Love the "elephant lady" comment, Cadfael!

[astack]

Originally Posted by sunbeast

I've tried both 250K and 500K in my Jazz with 2 Darkstars, and I preferred the 500K though it made more precise blending a little more touchy. On a single pickup bass that wouldn't be an issue though. With a tone pot, I always use a higher value because you can get all the lower values just by turning it down. The function of a volume control doesn't work that way though unfortunately- though you could always put a "treble bleed" capacitor across the volume pot to maintain a brighter tone regardless of what pot you use.

Great points. Will try experimenting with the treble bleed and different arrangements. Breadboard should come in handy for this.

Originally Posted by Cadfael

Pot values influence the resonance.
The high frequencies are "only" influenced "indirectly ...

YES!!! There are more high frequencies!!! No question!!!
But at the same time the resonance peak - and so the whole sound changes.

Changing pot values doesn't only mean adding high frequencies, but also "stressing them".

Therefore lower values can be a good choice to stress the frequency you mostly prefer. The loss of high frequencies might not be so important that to "cut through the band sound". The high mids can be important to be heard as a bass.

Bass players somethimes think that very low frequencies are great. This might be true if you live next to a zoo and want an elephant lady to "be in season" and fall in love with you. Other want to impress dogs or bats ...

On a high impedance bass you normally can't go totally wring eith a 250k-500k pot. Gibson also often used 300k (and 100k - which I wouldn't recommend) pots.
SC = 250k, HBs = 250k - but that's no rule!!!

Very good points. Thanks for some of the clarifications. This will be paired with fridge-like backlines, at least that's the plan, so I have no interest in those extended ranges. Maybe the Bisonic with it's extended range doesn't match with this, but my thought is send everything through and filter at the final stage.

Originally Posted by Cadfael

There is no rule ...
And as sunbeast correctly wrote: I PREFER ...
That's the right way! Your taste decides if 250k or 500k, lin or log (for Volume) are right.

Yup!

[astack]

Dug up a few pics of EB pots. These are short/regular, yeah? Edit: For-sale pics always have the nuts on so it's hard for me to tell.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by ctmullins

Love the "elephant lady" comment, Cadfael!

Me too!

[sunbeast]

Originally Posted by Cadfael

No matter if volume or (normal passive) tone pot ...
They are always wired parallel to the PU or Hot+Ground. Therefore they influence the sound (even with a capacitor been pot and Ground (Hot).

Of course the pot will still make a difference- I was just pointing out that with a standard 500k tone control, turning it down to the 250k point is equivalent to using a 250k pot turned up all the way (which isn't the case with a volume pot), so for my uses I'd rather have the wider range of the 500K. The "treble bleed" capacitor doesn't eliminate the loading of the pot, but it DOES help retain some of the treble that would otherwise be lost from that loading (all dependant on the capacitor/pot/pickups used).

Originally Posted by astack

Dug up a few pics of EB pots. These are short/regular, yeah? Edit: For-sale pics always have the nuts on so it's hard for me to tell.

You shouldn't need long-shaft pots in a standard flat-top guitar route- every guitar/bass I've ever had without pickguard mounted pots still just used the standard shaft pots. The long ones are way too long for most applications IMO (you also wouldn't be able to use microswitches for other cool wiring mods if you had that much wood between top and cavity- and switches are fun!).

[astack]

Originally Posted by sunbeast

You shouldn't need long-shaft pots in a standard flat-top guitar route- every guitar/bass I've ever had without pickguard mounted pots still just used the standard shaft pots. The long ones are way too long for most applications IMO (you also wouldn't be able to use microswitches for other cool wiring mods if you had that much wood between top and cavity- and switches are fun!).

Boom, well there's my answer. Thanks man! Good point about the switches.